Crime & Punishment

This was deleted from General Discussion, hopefully I'll be able to repost it in a shorter format here and have a discussion about the issues it raises (one that goes beyond the childish macho platitudes of "you can't hack it, go play WoW etc" I've encountered so far)

Mods, if this isn't the appropriate sub-forum for this particular discussion would you please direct me to where it would be appropriate. Thanks.

So I lost my Megathron Navy Issue to Wardeccers. I'm not really bothered about that in itself, losing ships is of little consequence in Eve, even expensive ones, but how I ended up in the situation where I was in hi-sec having to run mission after mission, just to be able to participate in a nullsec fleet every now and then, has annoyed me a great deal.

Here's the kill in question - https://zkillboard.com/kill/43661459/

I'm not embarassed to show you - losing ships in Eve means nothing if you're having fun in the process, and being OCD about your killboard is counter-productive if you actually want to enjoy this game. I learned that early on. That's not my point here, so please spare me the jibes about how delicious my tears taste etc, my point is how come the game forces people to engage in this tedious grind of hi-sec mission running for ISK, standing, etc but then also includes a mechanic which means that Wardeccers can destroy you whilst you do this unwelcome grind on a total whim? If you're going to make me do a grind for whatever reason, ok I'll accept that, but then don't make that impossible for me as well, because then what I can I do? This seems like a really serious flaw in the gameplay, one that basically crippled my enjoyment of the game and cost me my corp membership, and because of the perpetually adolescent machismo that exists in the community about these things a rational discussion about it seems very difficult.

I was basically locked out of being able to play the game for weeks because I had no money to buy ships to replace my losses in my nullsec corp, no standings to set up jump clones to go somewhere safer to rat/run missions, and no freedom of movement outside the station I was docked in. I spent weeks just in my base spinning my ship because the game led me down a dead end. Couldn't run missions in nullsec because of corp standings and unsafe location, couldn't go to hi-sec beacuse no jump-clone and Wardeccers. Couldn't do anything basically. All I could do is grind then die, grind then die, over and over.

I have a terrible feeling that the way this game is designed is that once they get your first set of subs, they don't really care what happens after that, they don't care once they've banked the money, and they've designed a business model which assumes that the bulk of people won't play after it dawns on them that the "This is Eve" is stuff is basically impossible for newer players to get involved with unless you're prepared to spend several years doing hi-sec carebear stuff first. I have this terrible feeling that a game I genuinely enjoyed in it's better moments is little better than a scam once you scratch beneath the surface.

My corp CEO actually said that "you'll get killed 100% if you go into hi-sec" and I said "I know this, but what choice do I have? Unsubscribe?" so I had to do it. If I could relive the whole thing I would do the exact same thing. And that's what bugs me more than losing the ship, this knawing feeling that I've been conned into buying a game that promises something that's actually beyond the reach of most new people playing the game.

So I'm wondering what to do next, as I still have 6 months left of my subscription, what options are there? Nullsec PVP is ruled out, so should I go for something like Faction Warfare? What's Red vs Blue like? I was in a wormhole corp with some friends when I first started, and that was fun, but it gets a bit boring tbh after a while if your WH never gets anyone visiting for a fight. How about organised griefing and Wardeccing in hi-sec? It seems pretty easy and you get to take out your frustrations and disappointments in the game against unsuspecting new players. I did a bit of hi-sec catalyst ganking and that's a cheap laugh, but there's not much challenge in it. Is there a way of doing this on a bigger scale? Is specifically targetting brand new players who are likely to ragequit also allowed when it comes to griefing?

You dont want to get WarDecced?

Join a NPC Corp...

You dont want to get blown up?

Get a corp that actually defends itself / run missions in groups...

No Jump Clone at system XYZ?

There is something called a "spaceship" in eve.. You can use it to fly to the destination system (Even various different ships... some are suited better than others)

Also there are NPC Corps that help you with standing so you can install clones ANYWHERE... Also you were in a NS Corp... How about jumping to your NS System, and installing a clone that way?

Where is the problem?

What exactly must you do in highsec?

ALso if you cannot afford to buy the ship you lost, you broke the ONLY rule in eve... Dont fly what you cannot afford to loose

I'll ignore all the obvious baiting and just point you to your previous nullsec corp's description:

☼ TEMPLAR. - British PvP Corp
☼ Daily Corp/Alliance roams
☼ 4 Corp FCs
☼ Ship reimbursment
☼ Make Isk/Sov space
☼ Quick easy access to null sec
☼ Channel: OUTREMER
☼ 15 million SP Required
☼90% Kill Efficiency Since 2008

Why you want to fly a blinged battleship (for which you clearly don't have the skills to fly nor the isk to loose) in hisec while at war is beyond me.

Tell you what, look for a fun corp/alliance, get in small ships and enjoy yourself.
You've learned a valuable lesson let it not be for nought.
If you insist on making isk first, same story: Don't fly what you can't afford to loose.
You don't need purple gear (or however you bears call it) to enjoy yourself.
This isn't WOW.

Now if you have any more questions, please post them in a nice list with numbers and stuff, I'll gladly reply to all of them.

D.

You sure are out of luck. Welcome to most notorious part of eve forums, the c&p.


I think core problem here is that you see eve like other MMOs. Sure there are missions and such to do but those should not be your focus in this game. Your very first focus should be to survive. All these setbacks, don't let them stop you from playing. If you do, eve for sure is not the right game for you. This is the darkest and certainly hardest MMO you will see, not because these damn game mechanics are so hard it takes months to learn just basics, but because this is true sandbox where players can do anything with very few restrictions set upon them. They can even scam you and steal everything you own if you are not careful.

First thing to do. Stop flying big and shiny ships for now till you know better about the dangers around you. Fit a frigate, go to low sec and hope someone willing to help you will find you. I was once in your position, but instead of throwing my hands up and saying "I can't play anymore", I sought to find way to solve the problem I was facing. For a week old newb, being chased by T3 cruisers, I did not have much to loose.

I found what I was looking for. I found old vets who, after killing me if course, offered their help. Even now, after a year, we are still in touch, and some are even part of my corp now. Find people who can help you, learn, and don't see mission grinding as all that eve can offer you. In the end, isk is just a number. It's fun that matters.

Welcome to EVE.

If you can't make more ISK in Nullsec than what you could make running missions, something is horribly horribly wrong.

That something might be your knowledge about what ISK making opportunities are available, risk aversion, local corp or SOV holder politics or even broken risk/reward ratio in Highsec. In general, if you have access to Nullsec or Lowsec, you never have to pay any attention whatsoever to wardecs, since the very existence of Highsec becomes blissfully irrelevant for everything other than being the home of your off-corp trade alt.

So, start ratting in null, doing exploration in null, daytripping in wormholes, mining in null, running industry in null or any other similar option, all of which should be more profitable and MUCH more enjoyable than highsec missions. Missions are boring, repetitive, not profitable and in all kinds of ways a horrible way to waste your time.

When you climb a ladder, you start at the top don't you?



To "make it" in EVE you need to aquire the following (IN ORDER):
People to fly with.
Knowledge of the game.
Knowledge of the ships and modules.
Skill to put that knowledge to work.
Skillpoints for whatever it is you have chosen to do.
isk.

On top of that, an open mind before you even try to begin.

It is you who led yourself to a dead end, not the game. The game is a sandbox, no dead ends there.
Your corp was made up of people who lied to you, tough. Good riddance!
On to the next adventure!
Please.

D.

This is really the game. You are suppose to gather resources/print ISK while other people try to stop you. Whether that takes place in highsec or nullsec, the draw of PvE income is to get you out in space as a target for your opponents to destroy. Your PvE activities not only provide you with resources to fight your opponents (everyone else in the game) they devalue my resources by making them less scarce. It is not a flaw - it is by design. It's not a big mystery why other players are trying to stop you.


Do what you like - New Eden is a wondrous sandbox full of opportunity. If it is PvP you crave RvB or FW are easy to jump into. Joining a wardeccing corp could also be fun, but if you insist on doing PvE you might want to have an alt for that because you will obviously be at war. Highsec ganking can be scaled up - freighter ganking being the obvious example although there are organized corps that go after blinged out mission boats as well.

Specifically targeting new players isn't very sporting, but you can do it as long as you stay out of the starter systems. In fact, if you blow them up and then gently explain to them what they did wrong, and that New Eden isn't a safe place, you are doing them a valuable service by teaching them this lesson while they are flying an easily replaceable ship. Otherwise, they will just eventually get blown up for the first time a few months later in a Navy Battleship and come to the forums raging about how the game is broken.

It doesn't function in the way you describe though. If it did then people like me wouldn't be in the position that i've painstakinly elaborated to you in the OP. The fact I could end up in the situation I did end up in shows that there's clearly something going wrong and this idealistic vision of the game being flawless, that if I'd just done X, Y or Z differently things would've been different. As of yet I haven't seen anyone describe to me what I could've done differently to avoid this outcome really (apart from not joining a Nullsec PVP corp until I'd done 5 years of mission-running and got 50 million skill points first before trying to actually enjoy myself)

It functions in such a way that PvE draws me out of me playing the game I enjoy (PVP, nullsec etc) for very long periods at a time but in the process makes me a sitting duck to wardeccers. Therefore I can't get the resources I need to fight my opponents (which if you remember back to the OP was the cause of my weeks of inactivity) in nullsec without facing inevitable and challenge-free certain death. Catch-22.

this is such crap and I'm sorry I've been playing long enough to be able to see marketing like that for what it is. It's a very restrctive sandbox, especially for those who are less than 3 or 4 years old, with a number of in-built checks and co-ercisve pressures to channel you into doing certain (often tedious) things. I wouldn't chose to run missions if we were in a proper sandbox game - very few Eve players would. Features such as wardeccing are speficially designed, not by the players but by the CCP itself it's in game design, to prevent your ability to do the basic things required to play the game and get ships.



So?? All the more reason to do it right?



Why would I want to do that?



Well it certainly seems that way from where I'm sitting. Losing your ship to wardeccers cos you're a newb and don't know better is one thing, losing your ship to wardeccers even though you know it's going to happen bu the gameplay dynamic has compelled you into a situation where it's your only alternative to spinning your shuttle in station is quite another.

The mere fact I found myself in this situation should be a sign that there's a problem with the wardeccing feaure that's not being addressed, and slavishly defending the game itself in spite of it's weaknesses seems like someone who's invested to much into a game (which only exists to deprive you of your money btw, the people who make Eve aren't a charity, they care more about money than balance y'know...) and can't bring themselves to acknolwedge certain facts even when they're staring them in the face

No money, no skillz, no clue eh?

Seems to me that you're looking for an easy life. Your old corp didn't do this or that or wardec ruined your only ship because you refused to adapt. Eve isn't instant win, you have to work at it. No one wants a whiner in their corp, be self sufficient. There's more to making money than running missions, there's more to PVP than F1 null sec fleets - which you never really did anyway, unless this is an alt.

If you're not creative enough to have fun in this game, what exactly do you expect from the denizens of C&P or CCP for that matter? There are tens of thousands of people that find their own way in this game, what makes you a special little snowflake?

Send me 500mil isk and I'll tell you.