Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Lol. "This guys trader has a small killboard, thus his arguments are irrelevant". That's effectively what you're saying. The fact that I've played EVE for 10 years and lived in all areas of space including nullsec which is my current home (that place we're talking about) for several years is irrelevant. zKB = powah!

Thank you for that link. Very nice to see I was right in suggesting that nerfing just cloaks might be a Bad Idea™. If it does lead to a surge in null sec ratting, then it is very likely CCP's response could be quite harsh which is typically the case in response to hyperinflation.

First the point about attacking stations:

Only those that are conquerable or outposts. NPC null stations are even more invulnerable than a cloaked ship. As for attacking it, yes you can. But you likely wont get anywhere fast and even if you did it does absolutely nothing to my safety. Also, to be reasonably effective in attacking a station you'll need a disproportionately larger response than dealing with a single cloaked player.

So...I'll give you a D- on this response.



It is indeed part of the problem. That much is quite clear.



Ahhh so much left out.

1. The PvE pilot can fit a cloak too. I have in the past. I often off line it so it doesn't slow down targeting, but if I need to go AFK and there is no tower or station, I on line and cloak.
2. The cloaked player who is AFK gains nothing. No isk. No resources. No additional skill points. All he can do is hope he can prevent some of the PvE guys from doing their thing.
3. While the cloak is active all other pilots are as safe from that cloaked pilot, as the cloaked pilot is from them.

Other than that, you make some good points. But I still argue that the power of local necessitates that cloaks be equally powerful.



Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we'll have to cancel Christmas too. It will change null...and depending on the change it might be too much of a change. It is a potentially delicate issue, but the lack of local will also grant you some immunity at least for a short period since they wont be able to see you either!



Why is it your posts always come off as wanting to have their cake and eat it too? "My God man, he'll be safe for 12 hours while he sidles up to you to pop that cyno and bring in a fleet of super carriers to crush your epithal!" [/end Eddie Izzard mode]

Yes, he can try to get close to you. Then again, if he is doing that he isn't AFK now is he?

Blind luck? I would not go that far, but the reason rests on the PvE players.

Calling the hostiles skilled is indeed flattery, no doubt, considering they simply know where to find easy kills.

If you know a bunch of semi AFK types are in a certain area, and they have proven to miss warnings in the past, then what you REALLY know about are a bunch of careless players who are easy kills.
I expect these show up in solid amounts regularly, indicating they couldn't care less about losing the odd ship here or there... they probably chalk it up to cost of doing business.

If you know that by attentive play, and preparation, a PvE pilot CAN avoid such a threat 100% of the time....
How then would you describe one that doesn't bother, or habitually seems to not care?

Apparently you suggest they were killed by a skilled PvPer, must be them jedi mind tricks, making them not pay attention to local or PvE ready to get safe.

The really weak examples probably dropping before roams, indicating they were AFK long enough to miss all the warnings, as well as local showing new names.

We all know they happen. That does not prove anything, beyond carelessness being common for some.

It's a counter to the benefits sov gives. That it's then been furthered in use in other systems is irrelevant. I've seen it in empire and in wormholes too, but it was born through sov null.

And no, that's not conceding the point. You seem to have missed the part where I've said that all along and you also seem to have skipped over how removing cloaking would also fix it. The point being made was that AFK cloaking was a counter to local, and the proof was that it uses it, something which is fundamentally incorrect. If you want to misread or misrepresent my posts, that's your own issue.

No really, let's look at how that encounter must have happened.

Your skilled PvPer enters into the system.
At this point, regardless of anyone's skills, that name appears in local.
That name appears long before many computer game clients are able to finish even loading the system, which is exactly why newly arrived ships are given a gate cloak effect.

In order to have ANY chance of killing their target, the PvE player HAS TO NOT REACT.

Which skill was it, or strategy, that caused the PvE player to ignore the name in local?

Maybe it was some clever tactic, that made the PvE player undock earlier in a fit that had poor value aligning and warping to safety.

You can't change the fact that the PvE player has to screw up or ignore an opportunity to avoid the hostile player, before that hostile player can ever encounter them.

It is a counter to local.

Here is the logic:

Lucas Kell is ratting/mining/doing PI/enjoying the fruits of null sec space.
Lucas is watching local to see when a hostile might show up and ruin his enjoyment of the fruits of null.
(How do I know the above, Lucas as said he does this in the old AFK Cloaking Collection Thread.)
A hostile comes in.
Lucas scoots to safety.

Seeing this response and realizing that local gives very, very good intel...in fact something of an advanced warning. The hostile comes back with a cloak, goes to a safe, activates the cloak and using the very same game mechanic Lucas used earlier to zip off to safety our hostile now uses it to stop or slow down Lucas' enjoyment of the fruits of null.

What makes it really awesome is he is using the very same game mechanic against you. Now the thing that helped you...hurts you.

You sir, would make an excellent politician given your uncanny ability to say complete and utter bullshit without your pants catching fire.

Please enlighten us noobs which skillz you have learned over the past ten years that prevent the ratters from seeing other people in local and gtfo?

As to your comment about afk cloaking being used against sov holders i'm sure it is, just as it is used against any other PvE'ers in k-space. Why is it used? because local gives away intel.

The ONLY way to counter the free intel of local is to spam it with what may or may not be a true threat.

1 It is the counter to local, as I stated previously, people afk cloak to degrade the quality of intel local provides. If a person is afk cloaked it prevents the other people in local from assuming it is safe/unsafe. If a pilot must be active to remain cloaked then the bears would know that it is in fact unsafe and therefore not undock. This is a lame mechanic indeed but if afk cloaking goes then local must too, otherwise people in sov null would be even safer than in high sec.

2 yeah it is luck when players get the drop on ratting carebears, the players are lucky that they found the people that chose to disregard the OP intel tool that local is. Don't deny that most ratters run away to safety as soon as they see a single non-friendly person in local, if that was the case (that people didn't alter behavior due to seeing others in local) afk cloaking wouldn't be an issue because people would just ignore them and go on about their business. For every ratter killed many more get away before the hunters even get a chance to d-scan their location.

3 Afk cloaking is used in more than just sov null, quit pretending it isn't. Also the harassment you speak of conducted by afk ships would be harassment of actual ships if not for local alerting the residents to the very slightest whiff of danger.

Which is why you cannot do either one individually, IMO. Doing just one or the other will likely have bad consequences.