These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#9821 - 2017-06-08 09:25:30 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
ok, especially @ Shitecko there.......

Explain why "AFK" cloaking is such a valid tactic and why that alone needs to be defended so heavily by its supporters?


Because they are bad at hunting...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9822 - 2017-06-08 16:15:21 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
ok, especially @ Shitecko there.......

Explain why "AFK" cloaking is such a valid tactic and why that alone needs to be defended so heavily by its supporters?


Because they are bad at hunting...


And you are a liar. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Tessa Sage
Long Pig Luncheon Meat
Sending Thots And Players
#9823 - 2017-06-08 18:24:06 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Yes, a ship with a covert ops cloak has far more control over when to engage, but that does not mean you do not have any options.


Like an early warning system? I'm beginning to equate an AFK cloaker to a Drifter wormhole, eventually something burps. You just have to hope you are the nimbler PVE'er or stay on grid owing to the PVP potential, not innately different reasons. Lol
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9824 - 2017-06-08 19:00:46 UTC
Tessa Sage wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Yes, a ship with a covert ops cloak has far more control over when to engage, but that does not mean you do not have any options.


Like an early warning system? I'm beginning to equate an AFK cloaker to a Drifter wormhole, eventually something burps. You just have to hope you are the nimbler PVE'er or stay on grid owing to the PVP potential, not innately different reasons. Lol


Or maybe you should get in fleet? Get on comms?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#9825 - 2017-06-08 20:04:02 UTC
[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/xT5LMADLN3zGz4Y2VG/giphy.gif[/img]

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
Valaba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9826 - 2017-06-08 22:17:40 UTC
In continuation to my thread here, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=521404&find=unread

Basically, the responses can only mean one thing which you cannot possibly disagree with if you are ok with afk cloaking.

It means it's ok for a hotdropper to login before they go to work, stay cloaked all day, gain a superior tactical advantage since the system owners never know when your afk or not without any risk to the cloaker themselves. They decloak with covert ops cloak, which has instant locking, their bomber friends come in and whoever they have locked is done since they have instantly scrambled the player being attacked.

This is an incredibly dumb aspect of this game. Anyone who doesn't see the superior tactical advantage to this doesn't have a brain. I dare anyone here to explain how this doesn't give the cloaker a superior advantage with zero risk. I'm not against cloaking and active players. I'm against cloaking using inactive players to ensure a guaranteed kill.

The immature players can say oh you whiner, oh you null sec care bear, blah blah blah whatever you want to say. I really don't care. I'm just pointing out an obvious balance issue in the game which obviously is an issue if there is a sticky thread on it. Duh....

And I won't mention you by name since it would be against forum policy, but the idiots who said I should post with my real character. Yeah sure lol. That would be even more dumb than the post. Grievers love to grief because their real lives are sad. I'll give you one hint. If you can figure it out you've earned it. I live in Fountain Region
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9827 - 2017-06-08 22:50:55 UTC
Valaba wrote:
In continuation to my thread here, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=521404&find=unread

Basically, the responses can only mean one thing which you cannot possibly disagree with if you are ok with afk cloaking.

It means it's ok for a hotdropper to login before they go to work, stay cloaked all day, gain a superior tactical advantage since the system owners never know when your afk or not without any risk to the cloaker themselves. They decloak with covert ops cloak, which has instant locking, their bomber friends come in and whoever they have locked is done since they have instantly scrambled the player being attacked.

This is an incredibly dumb aspect of this game. Anyone who doesn't see the superior tactical advantage to this doesn't have a brain. I dare anyone here to explain how this doesn't give the cloaker a superior advantage with zero risk. I'm not against cloaking and active players. I'm against cloaking using inactive players to ensure a guaranteed kill.

The immature players can say oh you whiner, oh you null sec care bear, blah blah blah whatever you want to say. I really don't care. I'm just pointing out an obvious balance issue in the game which obviously is an issue if there is a sticky thread on it. Duh....

And I won't mention you by name since it would be against forum policy, but the idiots who said I should post with my real character. Yeah sure lol. That would be even more dumb than the post. Grievers love to grief because their real lives are sad. I'll give you one hint. If you can figure it out you've earned it. I live in Fountain Region


Or you could be less terrible.

1. If he logs in and goes to work, he won't be locking or scramming anyone, this will be discernible via killboards. Go look through them and see when the player tends to get his kills.

2. You can...you know, get in fleet, get on comms and people can rat while in fleet with appropriately fit ships. Somebody gets into trouble, you go help each other out.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Kadeera
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9828 - 2017-06-08 23:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Kadeera
Teckos Pech wrote:
Or you could be less terrible.

1. If he logs in and goes to work, he won't be locking or scramming anyone, this will be discernible via killboards. Go look through them and see when the player tends to get his kills.

2. You can...you know, get in fleet, get on comms and people can rat while in fleet with appropriately fit ships. Somebody gets into trouble, you go help each other out.



Or you could be less of a troll and CCP could finally do something about this broken mechanic.

One hour non-repeatable cycle followed by a 60 second reactivation "grace period" timer where the camper can reactivate their cloak without uncloaking. That way you can cloaky camp all day til your heart is content, but you can't do it while you're away from your client for extended periods of time.

I'd even go so far as to make it so cloaking does remove you from local so long as you have to actively camp.
Rawls Canardly
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9829 - 2017-06-09 00:13:14 UTC
I would say require fuel of some sort. Something cheap, but big enough m3 to only allow you about 24 hours out of a full cargohold of a t3c. Stealth bombers would get about 6 hours worth. Make the cloaking device contain about 0.5 hour of fuel overall, with reloads taking around 30-40 seconds. No more all-day campers! This would not CURE the cloaky campers, nothing will, but it will force it to be a more active thing, and forcing the camper to plan how long he can actually stay in system before he runs out of fuel on the route home.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9830 - 2017-06-09 00:14:23 UTC
Kadeera wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Or you could be less terrible.

1. If he logs in and goes to work, he won't be locking or scramming anyone, this will be discernible via killboards. Go look through them and see when the player tends to get his kills.

2. You can...you know, get in fleet, get on comms and people can rat while in fleet with appropriately fit ships. Somebody gets into trouble, you go help each other out.



Or you could be less of a troll and CCP could finally do something about this broken mechanic.

One hour non-repeatable cycle followed by a 60 second reactivation "grace period" timer where the camper can reactivate their cloak without uncloaking. That way you can cloaky camp all day til your heart is content, but you can't do it while you're away from your client for extended periods of time.

I'd even go so far as to make it so cloaking does remove you from local so long as you have to actively camp.


Yes, when you can't reply in any meaningful way the other person MUST be a troll. Roll

This mechanic is not broken, you merely do not like it. You know he is there and you can take the appropriate action (see my post above or any one of dozens in this thread).

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9831 - 2017-06-09 00:17:57 UTC
Rawls Canardly wrote:
I would say require fuel of some sort. Something cheap, but big enough m3 to only allow you about 24 hours out of a full cargohold of a t3c. Stealth bombers would get about 6 hours worth. Make the cloaking device contain about 0.5 hour of fuel overall, with reloads taking around 30-40 seconds. No more all-day campers! This would not CURE the cloaky campers, nothing will, but it will force it to be a more active thing, and forcing the camper to plan how long he can actually stay in system before he runs out of fuel on the route home.


Why should an ATK cloak user have his game nerfed?

Oh, just out of curiosity what are you going to do about somebody using an alt with blockade runner? He can bring in days worth of fuel. So we are back to where we are with people simply switching over to T3Cs.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Valaba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9832 - 2017-06-09 00:54:26 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Valaba wrote:
In continuation to my thread here, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=521404&find=unread

Basically, the responses can only mean one thing which you cannot possibly disagree with if you are ok with afk cloaking.

It means it's ok for a hotdropper to login before they go to work, stay cloaked all day, gain a superior tactical advantage since the system owners never know when your afk or not without any risk to the cloaker themselves. They decloak with covert ops cloak, which has instant locking, their bomber friends come in and whoever they have locked is done since they have instantly scrambled the player being attacked.

This is an incredibly dumb aspect of this game. Anyone who doesn't see the superior tactical advantage to this doesn't have a brain. I dare anyone here to explain how this doesn't give the cloaker a superior advantage with zero risk. I'm not against cloaking and active players. I'm against cloaking using inactive players to ensure a guaranteed kill.

The immature players can say oh you whiner, oh you null sec care bear, blah blah blah whatever you want to say. I really don't care. I'm just pointing out an obvious balance issue in the game which obviously is an issue if there is a sticky thread on it. Duh....

And I won't mention you by name since it would be against forum policy, but the idiots who said I should post with my real character. Yeah sure lol. That would be even more dumb than the post. Grievers love to grief because their real lives are sad. I'll give you one hint. If you can figure it out you've earned it. I live in Fountain Region


Or you could be less terrible.

1. If he logs in and goes to work, he won't be locking or scramming anyone, this will be discernible via killboards. Go look through them and see when the player tends to get his kills.

2. You can...you know, get in fleet, get on comms and people can rat while in fleet with appropriately fit ships. Somebody gets into trouble, you go help each other out.


Coming from someone who always has live fleets available at their beck and call. The largest Alliance in the game.... Maybe you should think about the environment you live in before making such a ridiculous post. You reside in fantasy null.
Valaba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9833 - 2017-06-09 00:56:21 UTC
Rawls Canardly wrote:
I would say require fuel of some sort. Something cheap, but big enough m3 to only allow you about 24 hours out of a full cargohold of a t3c. Stealth bombers would get about 6 hours worth. Make the cloaking device contain about 0.5 hour of fuel overall, with reloads taking around 30-40 seconds. No more all-day campers! This would not CURE the cloaky campers, nothing will, but it will force it to be a more active thing, and forcing the camper to plan how long he can actually stay in system before he runs out of fuel on the route home.


Good idea.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9834 - 2017-06-09 02:50:23 UTC
Valaba wrote:


Coming from someone who always has live fleets available at their beck and call. The largest Alliance in the game.... Maybe you should think about the environment you live in before making such a ridiculous post. You reside in fantasy null.


So you're asking for cloaking to be nerfed because you know your group isn't capable of operating in a pvp environment?

So in this respect can ccp make it easy for my 5 man corp to run c6's? Btw, we don't want to pvp either. We just want to make billions with no risk.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Nortal Aldent
Hate By Design Inc.
#9835 - 2017-06-09 04:25:17 UTC
I think CCP MUST realize there IS an issue given the number of pages this thread has going on.

Doesn't mean they will DO anything...but they must realize there is an issue.

Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#9836 - 2017-06-09 04:44:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Deveron
Teckos Pech wrote:


2. You can...you know, get in fleet, get on comms and people can rat while in fleet with appropriately fit ships. Somebody gets into trouble, you go help each other out.


that is a standard answer for any group out in space no matter the location.
How about answering my question from a few posts back, ill wait while you finish chewing your cud and trying to lindo wick everything around you.

edit: nevermind ill read when i get time in the morning, didnt realize this thing jumped a few pages
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9837 - 2017-06-09 05:44:28 UTC
Valaba wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Valaba wrote:
In continuation to my thread here, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=521404&find=unread

Basically, the responses can only mean one thing which you cannot possibly disagree with if you are ok with afk cloaking.

It means it's ok for a hotdropper to login before they go to work, stay cloaked all day, gain a superior tactical advantage since the system owners never know when your afk or not without any risk to the cloaker themselves. They decloak with covert ops cloak, which has instant locking, their bomber friends come in and whoever they have locked is done since they have instantly scrambled the player being attacked.

This is an incredibly dumb aspect of this game. Anyone who doesn't see the superior tactical advantage to this doesn't have a brain. I dare anyone here to explain how this doesn't give the cloaker a superior advantage with zero risk. I'm not against cloaking and active players. I'm against cloaking using inactive players to ensure a guaranteed kill.

The immature players can say oh you whiner, oh you null sec care bear, blah blah blah whatever you want to say. I really don't care. I'm just pointing out an obvious balance issue in the game which obviously is an issue if there is a sticky thread on it. Duh....

And I won't mention you by name since it would be against forum policy, but the idiots who said I should post with my real character. Yeah sure lol. That would be even more dumb than the post. Grievers love to grief because their real lives are sad. I'll give you one hint. If you can figure it out you've earned it. I live in Fountain Region


Or you could be less terrible.

1. If he logs in and goes to work, he won't be locking or scramming anyone, this will be discernible via killboards. Go look through them and see when the player tends to get his kills.

2. You can...you know, get in fleet, get on comms and people can rat while in fleet with appropriately fit ships. Somebody gets into trouble, you go help each other out.


Coming from someone who always has live fleets available at their beck and call. The largest Alliance in the game.... Maybe you should think about the environment you live in before making such a ridiculous post. You reside in fantasy null.


Maybe you should look at a person's corp and alliance history before spouting off and letting everyone know what an idiot you are. I used to be in a primarily Euro TZ corp/alliance (I am west coast US TZ). That was much smaller than GSF.

And if you guys can't have a standing fleet, comms, etc....well then maybe NS is not for you.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9838 - 2017-06-09 05:49:59 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


2. You can...you know, get in fleet, get on comms and people can rat while in fleet with appropriately fit ships. Somebody gets into trouble, you go help each other out.


that is a standard answer for any group out in space no matter the location.
How about answering my question from a few posts back, ill wait while you finish chewing your cud and trying to lindo wick everything around you.

edit: nevermind ill read when i get time in the morning, didnt realize this thing jumped a few pages


Roll

And yeah, that is the standard that should be used irrespective of where one is...good advice. But note the people who want to nerf cloaks for everyone, not just the AFK cloakers, do NOT practice this. Instead they whine about having to do that. Primarily because they do not know what a standing fleet is or how to use it to their advantage.

And yeah...Goons will drop a crap ton of stuff on your head if you try to go in and grab one of their ratting carriers. But notice, the Bads™ in this thread actually make that out to be a Bad Thing™. If you are in a corp or alliance where 7 guys are making you all dock up....what does that say about that corp/alliance?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#9839 - 2017-06-09 06:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Linus Gorp
Nortal Aldent wrote:
I think CCP MUST realize there IS an issue given the number of pages this thread has going on.

Doesn't mean they will DO anything...but they must realize there is an issue.


Yes, the issue is local chat. Everyone with half a brain knows it and all the "afk cloaking hurts my feelings" whiners refuse to acknowledge it, because what they're after is 100% safe ratting space for zero effort.



You guys want to rat in a PvP zone and hold space in said PvP zone. If you can't defend yourselves against a single hotdropper, then you simply do not deserve to get any rewards, let alone hold space there and you should move your lazy carebear asses back to Hello Kitty Online.

You have been told time and again your options of defending yourself, but you guys just don't want to do it because it requires effort and you can't Netflix all day long. Instead of crying about how you're entitled to safe ratting space (you're not), you could grow some balls and stop being crying victims. AFK cloaking is the symptom of your "I want to be 100% safe at all times" abusing of local as an intel tool. It's an evil of your own making. If CCP keeps the status quo and just nerfes cloaks, something else would arise to replace it because AFK cloaking is not the problem, it is merely a symptom of the problem and the cycle would start anew and you guys would keep crying about nerfing x y z because it violates your safe spaces.

The status quo with AFK cloaking still favors the defender unless you're just a poor victim with no business being in nullsec in the first place.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Tessa Sage
Long Pig Luncheon Meat
Sending Thots And Players
#9840 - 2017-06-09 09:20:29 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

1. If he logs in and goes to work, he won't be locking or scramming anyone, this will be discernible via killboards. Go look through them and see when the player tends to get his kills.

... You know he is there and you can take the appropriate action (see my post above or any one of dozens in this thread).


This gives me an idea Teckos, where if zKillboard and the in game bounty system embellish upon said cloaker's usual whereabouts, notoriety and PvP capability, perhaps introduce one catalyst: a greater than 100 Million bounty will decloak the camper for a reasonable "go get em" span of time. This would no doubt draw lots of attention to the system affected and richly reward mercenaries in range to respond. Would they leave quietly upon carrying out the gargantuan bounty? It's fun to play through this concept.