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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9661 - 2017-05-12 18:47:53 UTC
Xcom wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
maniac69uk wrote:
what good is that if people get fed up with afk cloakers and quit?


Nothing of value is lost in that case. If you're the kind of pathetic failure that can't deal with AFK cloaking then you don't belong in EVE. Goodbye.

I hope you quit when they fix AFK cloaking.


I am pretty sure that Black Pedro is right. That CCP may change how cloaking works--i.e. in certain contexts you can scan them down, but along with that local will no longer work as it does.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9662 - 2017-05-12 20:10:12 UTC
Linus Gorp wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Tells me that those companies didn't actually hire any computer security personal at all, an in turn trusted that their standard IT staff could handle any security breach that hit them.

It also means that they didn't have anyone doing weekly PMs on their network to check for vulnerabilities.

Of course, sure, you can try to blame it on "Kids like me." But that just says that you never worked in a professional environment where you see these "money" saving tactics all the time.

The NHS isn't a company. Hundreds of hospitals aren't companies.
The "management" thinks they don't need IT security because of people like you. Big talkers when everything's fine, zero clue when **** hits the fan.

While I agree that this is more often than not a management problem (most business administration guys are clueless idiots), I doubt it would be as bad as it is without people like you, that severely overestimate their knowledge and try to impress with it.

Xcom wrote:
Linus Gorp take your medicine. We don't want to put you back in the cage, do we?

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/12215635.jpg


I do believe the irony of this post has hit critical mass.

No , no. You are right nhs is a nationally run sevice that can't possibly be plagued by similar miss management an mishandling of one's budget an personal that so often plague businesses.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Xcom
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9663 - 2017-05-12 20:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Xcom
Teckos Pech wrote:
Xcom wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
maniac69uk wrote:
what good is that if people get fed up with afk cloakers and quit?


Nothing of value is lost in that case. If you're the kind of pathetic failure that can't deal with AFK cloaking then you don't belong in EVE. Goodbye.

I hope you quit when they fix AFK cloaking.


I am pretty sure that Black Pedro is right. That CCP may change how cloaking works--i.e. in certain contexts you can scan them down, but along with that local will no longer work as it does.

We will all rejoice when it happens. Till then this thread will drag the quality of eve forums ever so further closer to 4chan thanks to people like Linus Gorp.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#9664 - 2017-05-12 20:24:45 UTC
Xcom wrote:
I hope you quit when they fix AFK cloaking.


It could happen. Not because I do much AFK cloaking myself (I don't), but because nerfing AFK cloaking would be a step in the direction of destroying EVE's core principles in favor of coddling weak carebears who insist on mindlessly farming everything at maximum efficiency and have zero ability to adapt to adversity. And taking steps in that direction would suggest that EVE's developers are no longer concerned with maintaining the things that make EVE special, and have shifted to a business plan of attempting to milk the cash cow of WoW addicts with "level your Raven" gameplay as the new priority.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#9665 - 2017-05-12 20:29:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Linus Gorp
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Xcom wrote:
I hope you quit when they fix AFK cloaking.


It could happen. Not because I do much AFK cloaking myself (I don't), but because nerfing AFK cloaking would be a step in the direction of destroying EVE's core principles in favor of coddling weak carebears who insist on mindlessly farming everything at maximum efficiency and have zero ability to adapt to adversity. And taking steps in that direction would suggest that EVE's developers are no longer concerned with maintaining the things that make EVE special, and have shifted to a business plan of attempting to milk the cash cow of WoW addicts with "level your Raven" gameplay as the new priority.

Hate to break it to you, but that trend already started a few years ago. Every year, it becomes harder and harder to justify playing EVE.

Xcom wrote:
We will all rejoice when it happens. Till then this thread will drag the quality of eve forums ever so further closer to 4chan thanks to people like Linus Gorp.

I don't know what 4chan is, but I'm sure it can only go uphill. Especially with people of your intellectual level around.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Xcom
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9666 - 2017-05-13 06:34:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Xcom
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Xcom wrote:
I hope you quit when they fix AFK cloaking.


It could happen. Not because I do much AFK cloaking myself (I don't), but because nerfing AFK cloaking would be a step in the direction of destroying EVE's core principles in favor of coddling weak carebears who insist on mindlessly farming everything at maximum efficiency and have zero ability to adapt to adversity. And taking steps in that direction would suggest that EVE's developers are no longer concerned with maintaining the things that make EVE special, and have shifted to a business plan of attempting to milk the cash cow of WoW addicts with "level your Raven" gameplay as the new priority.

I think you got it backwards. AFK cloaking helps create intel networks, as well as AFK camping, that prevent active pvp to be promoted forcing passive pvp. It prevents the game from evolving being the opposite of "zero ability to adapt to adversity" which is what could be said about purists like you, holding on to old principles and philosophy of your deluded idea of what eves philosophy is. Change is needed in active pvp and gameplay which AFK cloaking directly is harming. Basic gist, AFK cloaking being carebear pvp done by hot droppers pvping at "maximum efficiency" with minimal risk, pointing fingers at there pray as them being the carebear min maxers while doing the same.

This whole s**t needs to go.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9667 - 2017-05-13 08:14:08 UTC
Xcom wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Xcom wrote:
I hope you quit when they fix AFK cloaking.


It could happen. Not because I do much AFK cloaking myself (I don't), but because nerfing AFK cloaking would be a step in the direction of destroying EVE's core principles in favor of coddling weak carebears who insist on mindlessly farming everything at maximum efficiency and have zero ability to adapt to adversity. And taking steps in that direction would suggest that EVE's developers are no longer concerned with maintaining the things that make EVE special, and have shifted to a business plan of attempting to milk the cash cow of WoW addicts with "level your Raven" gameplay as the new priority.

I think you got it backwards. AFK cloaking helps create intel networks, as well as AFK camping, that prevent active pvp to be promoted forcing passive pvp. It prevents the game from evolving being the opposite of "zero ability to adapt to adversity" which is what could be said about purists like you, holding on to old principles and philosophy of your deluded idea of what eves philosophy is. Change is needed in active pvp and gameplay which AFK cloaking directly is harming. Basic gist, AFK cloaking being carebear pvp done by hot droppers pvping at "maximum efficiency" with minimal risk, pointing fingers at there pray as them being the carebear min maxers while doing the same.

This whole s**t needs to go.


No. An intel network is valuable also for ATK cloakers and even ATK non-cloakers. I find your arguments of using friendly AFK cloakers as bot intel network nonsense. Why not just use players in station? No, this is just another pathetic attempt to try and link cloaks to botting and thereby justify nerfing them.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Xcom
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9668 - 2017-05-13 09:00:56 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Xcom wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Xcom wrote:
I hope you quit when they fix AFK cloaking.


It could happen. Not because I do much AFK cloaking myself (I don't), but because nerfing AFK cloaking would be a step in the direction of destroying EVE's core principles in favor of coddling weak carebears who insist on mindlessly farming everything at maximum efficiency and have zero ability to adapt to adversity. And taking steps in that direction would suggest that EVE's developers are no longer concerned with maintaining the things that make EVE special, and have shifted to a business plan of attempting to milk the cash cow of WoW addicts with "level your Raven" gameplay as the new priority.

I think you got it backwards. AFK cloaking helps create intel networks, as well as AFK camping, that prevent active pvp to be promoted forcing passive pvp. It prevents the game from evolving being the opposite of "zero ability to adapt to adversity" which is what could be said about purists like you, holding on to old principles and philosophy of your deluded idea of what eves philosophy is. Change is needed in active pvp and gameplay which AFK cloaking directly is harming. Basic gist, AFK cloaking being carebear pvp done by hot droppers pvping at "maximum efficiency" with minimal risk, pointing fingers at there pray as them being the carebear min maxers while doing the same.

This whole s**t needs to go.


No. An intel network is valuable also for ATK cloakers and even ATK non-cloakers. I find your arguments of using friendly AFK cloakers as bot intel network nonsense. Why not just use players in station? No, this is just another pathetic attempt to try and link cloaks to botting and thereby justify nerfing them.

There are no stations in null so I don't get what your on about. And ATK cloaker intel networking is just as bad as bot networking when there is no drawback.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#9669 - 2017-05-13 12:47:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Linus Gorp
Xcom wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Xcom wrote:
I hope you quit when they fix AFK cloaking.


It could happen. Not because I do much AFK cloaking myself (I don't), but because nerfing AFK cloaking would be a step in the direction of destroying EVE's core principles in favor of coddling weak carebears who insist on mindlessly farming everything at maximum efficiency and have zero ability to adapt to adversity. And taking steps in that direction would suggest that EVE's developers are no longer concerned with maintaining the things that make EVE special, and have shifted to a business plan of attempting to milk the cash cow of WoW addicts with "level your Raven" gameplay as the new priority.

I think you got it backwards. AFK cloaking helps create intel networks, as well as AFK camping, that prevent active pvp to be promoted forcing passive pvp. It prevents the game from evolving being the opposite of "zero ability to adapt to adversity" which is what could be said about purists like you, holding on to old principles and philosophy of your deluded idea of what eves philosophy is. Change is needed in active pvp and gameplay which AFK cloaking directly is harming. Basic gist, AFK cloaking being carebear pvp done by hot droppers pvping at "maximum efficiency" with minimal risk, pointing fingers at there pray as them being the carebear min maxers while doing the same.

This whole s**t needs to go.

If AFK cloaking has any impact at all on PvP, then it's a positive one.
You're just crying because you are unable to defend yourself and think you're entitled to to your perfect isk/hour in a pvp zone.

The status quo evolved naturally into what it is now. Worthless entitled carebears like you are abusing the **** out of local, which was never intended as an intel tool, and thus AFK cloaking was conceived to counter your perfect intel tool.

It was your dumb kind that tried and still tries to avoid any and all PvP, while feeling entitled to maximum gain in a PvP zone. No matter how much you cry, most of the devs at CCP still know what EVE is about and no level of crying is going to change their opinion.

AFK cloaking exists solely because people like you abused the **** out of game mechanics, which we then turned against you. CCP isn't going to make nullsec more safe than it already is. If anything, they'll make it more dangerous to justify the increased rewards.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9670 - 2017-05-13 15:20:37 UTC
Xcom wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Xcom wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Xcom wrote:
I hope you quit when they fix AFK cloaking.


It could happen. Not because I do much AFK cloaking myself (I don't), but because nerfing AFK cloaking would be a step in the direction of destroying EVE's core principles in favor of coddling weak carebears who insist on mindlessly farming everything at maximum efficiency and have zero ability to adapt to adversity. And taking steps in that direction would suggest that EVE's developers are no longer concerned with maintaining the things that make EVE special, and have shifted to a business plan of attempting to milk the cash cow of WoW addicts with "level your Raven" gameplay as the new priority.

I think you got it backwards. AFK cloaking helps create intel networks, as well as AFK camping, that prevent active pvp to be promoted forcing passive pvp. It prevents the game from evolving being the opposite of "zero ability to adapt to adversity" which is what could be said about purists like you, holding on to old principles and philosophy of your deluded idea of what eves philosophy is. Change is needed in active pvp and gameplay which AFK cloaking directly is harming. Basic gist, AFK cloaking being carebear pvp done by hot droppers pvping at "maximum efficiency" with minimal risk, pointing fingers at there pray as them being the carebear min maxers while doing the same.

This whole s**t needs to go.


No. An intel network is valuable also for ATK cloakers and even ATK non-cloakers. I find your arguments of using friendly AFK cloakers as bot intel network nonsense. Why not just use players in station? No, this is just another pathetic attempt to try and link cloaks to botting and thereby justify nerfing them.

There are no stations in null so I don't get what your on about. And ATK cloaker intel networking is just as bad as bot networking when there is no drawback.


Yes, there are stations in null. Conquerable stations, outposts and nowadays, citadels, and even POS (although not sure for how much longer). Point is intel networks are valuable with or without cloaks and one does not need to use a cloak to set one up if one were to go the botting route.

And no, an ATK intel network is not a bad thing (or are you suddenly implicitly agreeing with baltec?). When players are getting together and doing things spontaneously and giving rise to new forms of game play that is exactly what this game is about. So you are showing your ignorance of what this game is about.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#9671 - 2017-05-13 17:50:04 UTC
Xcom wrote:
There are no stations in null


Well, this certainly demonstrates that you know nothing about nullsec and are completely incapable of contributing anything useful to this thread.
Xcom
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9672 - 2017-05-13 20:09:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Xcom
With moon mining goes into asteroids and citadels AFK camping will become an even bigger pain. It shouldn't be long till every dispo moon will have 20 campers sitting on top.

Conquerables and POS are all on the chopping board so wont be long till everything in null is mutable. If you have a problem with people being safe then do like everyone else in null. Go take there space. Don't be cowered camper.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#9673 - 2017-05-13 20:14:38 UTC
Xcom wrote:
With moon mining goes into asteroids and citadels AFK camping will become an even bigger pain. It shouldn't be long till every dispo moon will have 20 campers sitting on top.

Conquerables and POS are all on the chopping board so wont be long till everything in null is mutable. If you have a problem with people being safe then do like everyone else in null. Go take there space. Don't be cowered camper.

I don't give a **** about sov. I have no interest in holding space that I have no intention of defending.

Your crying shows your inability of defending sov space and thus, both you and your failure of an alliance have no business being in nullsec.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9674 - 2017-05-13 20:34:34 UTC
Xcom wrote:
With moon mining goes into asteroids and citadels AFK camping will become an even bigger pain. It shouldn't be long till every dispo moon will have 20 campers sitting on top.


20, 100...

What difference does it make when it takes just one to scare you off?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
Seventh Sanctum.
#9675 - 2017-05-13 20:37:09 UTC
WOW you ppl still arguing?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#9676 - 2017-05-13 20:57:29 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


First off how many people quit? People say this all the time, but it is completely devoid of any factual basis at all.


Indeed. Pretty sure dracvlad said he was quitting.

The only people I've seen disappear after a QQ is kaarous and tippia.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#9677 - 2017-05-13 23:13:01 UTC
Xcom wrote:
With moon mining goes into asteroids and citadels AFK camping will become an even bigger pain. It shouldn't be long till every dispo moon will have 20 campers sitting on top.


First of all, boo hoo, if your alliance can't hold the moon against those 20 campers then you don't deserve to hold it at all. A 20-man cloaking fleet is certainly one of the least significant threats you can expect to face in alliance warfare, and high-end moons are the prize for the top alliances that win EVE's massive wars. If you're a small-scale entity that can't handle even token threats then high-end moons are not meant for you.

Quote:
Conquerables and POS are all on the chopping board so wont be long till everything in null is mutable. If you have a problem with people being safe then do like everyone else in null. Go take there space. Don't be cowered camper.


So your honest opinion is that PvE farmers should be safe unless you can bring a full-scale invasion against them and conquer their space?That's absolutely insane.
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9678 - 2017-05-14 06:52:57 UTC
Xcom wrote:

Conquerables and POS are all on the chopping board so wont be long till everything in null is mutable. If you have a problem with people being safe then do like everyone else in null. Go take there space. Don't be cowered camper.



here a question, how do you purpose someone wage a war on someone when you can't have any effect on their economy (IE unable to kill the PVErs.)

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9679 - 2017-05-14 07:50:00 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


First off how many people quit? People say this all the time, but it is completely devoid of any factual basis at all.


Indeed. Pretty sure dracvlad said he was quitting.

The only people I've seen disappear after a QQ is kaarous and tippia.


Mag's didn't QQ, at least not on the forums, but pretty sure he is gone too. And not because of AFK cloakers. I'd love to see one of these mythical "quitting because of AFK cloaking" types.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#9680 - 2017-05-14 07:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Xcom wrote:
With moon mining goes into asteroids and citadels AFK camping will become an even bigger pain. It shouldn't be long till every dispo moon will have 20 campers sitting on top.

Conquerables and POS are all on the chopping board so wont be long till everything in null is mutable. If you have a problem with people being safe then do like everyone else in null. Go take there space. Don't be cowered camper.


How many people do you think are going to be involved in moon mining? Form what I have read it does not sound like it will be a solo endeavor like with ratting. It is probably going to be a sizeable fleet. So they probably won't care about 1 AFK cloaker of 20 AFK cloakers. If it turns out that one of the cloakers is ATK and drops a fleet on them, expect a counter drop and a pretty sudden escalation.

If anything it sounds like it might be more fun than what we have now.

1. Bash the POS. Note the timer.
2. Come back to kill the POS, hope they show for a fight.
3. Kill the POS, set up the moon mining stuff.
4. See if they try to RF your new POS.


And yes, I know they are planning on taking away stations and outposts eventually in sov NS. That still does not invalidate my point, that even sitting in a citadel you can have that intel bot network. No need to have cloak.

Really, I'm not sure what you are complaining about now other than scrabbling around trying to find something you can chuck at cloaks. But right now it all looks pretty pathetic.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online