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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals First post First post
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Maria Dragoon

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 144

#9621 - 2017-05-12 08:27:16 UTC

Dracvlad wrote:

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Dracvlad wrote:

Not to get too far off the subject matter, this is not a trick question or anything like that, and I have no real idea what is involved in hacks, bots etc., but on three occasions I have been on grid with characters run by Russian players who are not reported in local, how would you say they did that. And please note that they have a decompiled copy of the client.

Some how, I highly doubt this actually ever happened. So to be frank, I'm going to simply call this out for what it is.

Bullshit.

With that statement you just confirmed to me that you have no idea what you are talking about, why would I lie about something like that, what gain have I in this conversation for lying, and also when I am asking for your your opinion on it because you gave the impression you knew what you were talking about, I have to agree with Linus Gorp then.

Also I was in contact with CCP over them too, but I cannot talk more about that.

An again, I'm going to continue to call it out for what it is, bullshit, anyone can make claims on the internet, but the reality speaks far more strongly then what ever made up story you have.

Here something super dooper simple, that even a five year old can understand.

The client, is like the puppeteer, your character is like a puppet, the server is the stage for your puppet. Regardless what the puppeteer does with the "Strings" the puppet is always constricted to the rules and space of the stage, so if they hit a wall on the stage, the puppet stops functioning as intended, an if you some how magically remove sad puppet from the stage, then guess what the server no longer sees it, an thus unable to interact with all the other puppets that are also bouncing around on the stage.

Super dooper easy example. I straight up can't make it any simpler than that.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Linus Gorp

Ministry of Propaganda and Morale

Likes received: 1,627

#9622 - 2017-05-12 08:27:58 UTC

Xcom wrote:

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Xcom wrote:

Does the client receive data from the server on who is in local? Yes or no.
If that data is presented to the client. Cant a 3rd party use that data somehow? or am I wrong?
Is it then possible to link the 3rd party tool to gather accurate intel in a system? intel that is used nonstop 237.

It sounds more like you just talk nonsense to confuse the matter.

What you are asking is a loaded question.

The client receives the Server's interpretation of local. That means that the client sending information to the server that revolves around local will not be the same interpretation of the information it is receiving from the mechanic.

The second part "Can a 3rd party program use the data somehow?" Yes an no, at the same time. If you make a program from scratch, and demand information from the server, and the server is unable to recognize the program, the server will refuse to communicate with the server. (After all, allowing communication with an uncertified program is like.... A really big ******* security breach.)

Is it then possible to link the 3rd party tool to gather accurate intel in a system non-stop? Then answer is, without the client, No. With the client, only until you get caught, because the client, and the server can monitor the information that passes through it, to use chat, you are sending packets to the server, an someone that is sending generic copy and paste information through a chat channel every time a non-blue shows up in local, is highly likely to get you flagged as a bot.

I honestly don't know what your trying to get to. Its simple, turn on the client. Client gets data from server, use the data to make monitoring bots. Easy and simple. No need to send the server anything. Thats why its bad having AFK clients logged in.

Stop trying to impress anyone with babble. Its not hard figuring out what data from the server is related to local. You isolate that data and use it.

You're both talking complete non-sense.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

Maria Dragoon

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 144

#9623 - 2017-05-12 08:30:23 UTC

Xcom wrote:

No man, I get it, you don't understand how networking works. An you think connecting to the server is like turning on a facet of water.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Linus Gorp

Ministry of Propaganda and Morale

Likes received: 1,627

#9624 - 2017-05-12 08:31:10 UTC

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Xcom wrote:

No man, I get it, you don't understand how networking works. An you think connecting to the server is like turning on a facet of water.

Well, to be fair, you don't understand it either.

Dracvlad

Taishi Combine

Astral Alliance

Likes received: 3,498

#9625 - 2017-05-12 08:31:44 UTC

Linus Gorp wrote:

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Linus Gorp wrote:

It's called login traps.

Even with login traps, as soon as they log in, they pop up in local (Though you having enough time between them popping up in local an escaping is a different question.)

They are attempting to try and elude that you can hack the game an be ignored by local, they clearly don't know what they are talking about, an pulling crap out of their rears to make an argument that makes no damn sense.

Yes, that's a classic Dracvlad. He tries that all the time. But what he describes is a login trap where he hasn't been paying attention for the 3 to 5 seconds it takes a hunter to get back on grid after logging in.

Seriously you are dumb, the last one was a Solar Wing player who jumped into 3-FKCZ from Efa and he warped to the 0TKF-6 gate he was on grid with me twice and he did not show up in local, nothing to do with login traps or anything like that which is seriously dumb.

Anyway I just have to laugh at you lot now... Roll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Maria Dragoon

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 144

#9626 - 2017-05-12 08:33:19 UTC

Linus Gorp wrote:

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Xcom wrote:

No man, I get it, you don't understand how networking works. An you think connecting to the server is like turning on a facet of water.

Well, to be fair, you don't understand it either.

Aww, why thank you dear heart. I'm glad to know someone else understands about ports, certifications, TCP/IP an the basic security protocols revolved around packet checking. :)

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Dracvlad

Taishi Combine

Astral Alliance

Likes received: 3,498

#9627 - 2017-05-12 08:37:32 UTC

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Dracvlad wrote:

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Dracvlad wrote:

Some how, I highly doubt this actually ever happened. So to be frank, I'm going to simply call this out for what it is.

Bullshit.

Again you don't know what you are talking about because as I said I have no reason to lie, another person petitioned the first one, I failed to get the name of the second event and I personally petitioned the third event, and why would I lie.

Simple really my question was to ask you how it was possible and you just replied with a bullshit answer proving you don't know jack which was not even my intention, I was genuinely wondering how they did it? But anyway, I have you marked as a class A idiot.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Maria Dragoon

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 144

#9628 - 2017-05-12 08:43:09 UTC | Edited by: Maria Dragoon

Dracvlad wrote:

Then I guess I will have to spell it out for you.

When you change systems you have to tell the server that you want your character to go from system A, to System B

When you change system the server says. "Hey, your character is now in System B, so we shunted you over to system B's local channel."

The server then says. "Hey everyone else, we have updated local, have some packets!"

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Dracvlad

Taishi Combine

Astral Alliance

Likes received: 3,498

#9629 - 2017-05-12 08:56:39 UTC | Edited by: Dracvlad

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Dracvlad wrote:

Well yes that is obvious how it should work, before you get too far up yourself I programmed stuff in VB.Net and had high level SQL skills, but internet protocols, data packets and encryption are not areas I ever looked at in detail.

But I am asking how did they manage to hack it so they did not appear in local to the server, in any case it is not important for me to continue to ask as you obviously have no idea and seem to want to talk baby talk and get insulting to massage your ego.

Seriously mate why would I lie on those three events and for me it was simple curiosity, I certainly did not expect to get insulted for asking that question and have baby talk thrown back at me, are you that sad as a person?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Linus Gorp

Ministry of Propaganda and Morale

Likes received: 1,627

#9630 - 2017-05-12 09:02:35 UTC

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Linus Gorp wrote:

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Xcom wrote:

No man, I get it, you don't understand how networking works. An you think connecting to the server is like turning on a facet of water.

Well, to be fair, you don't understand it either.

Aww, why thank you dear heart. I'm glad to know someone else understands about ports, certifications, TCP/IP an the basic security protocols revolved around packet checking. :)

This sounds to me like you're taking every layer of the networking stack, throw it all in a big bowl, mish-mash it around, add some stuff that has nothing to do with it and then use that to make an argument.

Please, just stop talking about things you don't understand, because I really can't stop laughing about this.

Maria Dragoon

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 144

#9631 - 2017-05-12 09:10:32 UTC

Linus Gorp wrote:

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Linus Gorp wrote:

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Xcom wrote:

No man, I get it, you don't understand how networking works. An you think connecting to the server is like turning on a facet of water.

Well, to be fair, you don't understand it either.

Aww, why thank you dear heart. I'm glad to know someone else understands about ports, certifications, TCP/IP an the basic security protocols revolved around packet checking. :)

Aww, I'm glad someone else finds it amusing. Sure I mean, I guess I can go on about the different layers of OSI, you are right. I can also go on about basic things like IPSec, or perhaps ISAKMP. Or perhaps I can go on about the differences between Public keys ( Asymmetric) and private keys (symmetric).

If you find that all amusing, perhaps I will also provide you in detail the differences between a Digital signature vs a Digitized Signature. Oh boy, I'm sure you will be bawling your eyes out on that one! (Hint, the two have nothing to do with one another.) :D

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Linus Gorp

Ministry of Propaganda and Morale

Likes received: 1,627

#9632 - 2017-05-12 09:18:52 UTC | Edited by: Linus Gorp

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Okay kid. Really, just stop.

I'm a renowned security researcher and have to do with ITsec on a daily basis, on a level that's far beyond what your underdeveloped brain could comprehend.
You are spitting out so much bullshit that it gets dangerous. Security isn't something you can learn in a day and it's not a toy to make fun of. If even one other person believes anything of the crap you give from yourself and then makes decisions based on your misinformation and cluelessness, then you've done some serious harm.

So instead of talking trash and trying to look like a cool kid, why don't you just shut up now and get a basic level of understanding about the things you're trying to impress with?

Maria Dragoon

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 144

#9633 - 2017-05-12 09:22:30 UTC

Linus Gorp wrote:

Maria Dragoon wrote:

I do believe I just choked on my drink, I shall grab another Henry's soda (because beer is nasty, I really don't understand how anyone can drink it.) an then point an laugh at my point proven.

Anyone can claim to be anything on the internet.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Linus Gorp

Ministry of Propaganda and Morale

Likes received: 1,627

#9634 - 2017-05-12 09:30:01 UTC

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Linus Gorp wrote:

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Except I know what I talk about and you do not.
But fine, if you want to keep it going instead of letting the wiser person educate you, by all means, be my guest.

Maria Dragoon

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 144

#9635 - 2017-05-12 09:45:43 UTC

Linus Gorp wrote:

Except I know what I talk about and you do not.
But fine, if you want to keep it going instead of letting the wiser person educate you, by all means, be my guest.

Except, you arn't wiser. Infact, I can most likely guarantee that you arn't.

For first, the likeliness of you reverse engineering a program, without some sophisticated tools, an a understanding of what it was coded in before hand, is highly unlikely. The average person wouldn't be assanined in doing it, because once a compiler changes the code(be it java, c++ or C-sharp) it into assembly code, it pretty much stays assembly code unless you are willing to put the time an effort into figuring out what it original language was. Which can take years, an ontop of it, you HAVE to have a strong understanding of the many different code bases (which is why it normally takes a team to reverse engineer something, an not...you know, one person) an even then, once you do manage to reverse engineered, it not without subjected to it own problems of "Information loss in translation." It one of the reasons CCP gives out the API keys so that people don't have to reverse engineer ****, but have access to raw data right then an there, an thus can build what ever program in what ever language they please.

Second of all, if you were such Master of your degree, or a renowned security researcher, then you would also know that just about all well known and supported Standards have been put under scrutiny for years, maybe even a decades by today, thus someone breaking through encryption methods through mathematics alone is HIGHLY unlikely. (An I really ******* stress the highly unlikely part.)

An finally as a Researcher, specially one of the computer security nature, you also would know that security isn't just a one layer thing, but it a number of layers working together, even layers that person who created the application layer didn't make themselves, which includes security headers on your packets.

Renown my ass.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Linus Gorp

Ministry of Propaganda and Morale

Likes received: 1,627

#9636 - 2017-05-12 09:58:10 UTC | Edited by: Linus Gorp

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Linus Gorp wrote:

Except I know what I talk about and you do not.
But fine, if you want to keep it going instead of letting the wiser person educate you, by all means, be my guest.

And more talk about things you don't understand.
If you weren't such a whiny little teenager that thinks he read some words on the internet and now knows how **** works, I'd have taken the time to explain to you where you are wrong, how the stuff really works and would have directed you towards resources to educate yourself with.

But instead of just admitting that you're just a dumb kid with no understanding of things, you had to keep going and show everyone with half a clue what a badly educated dumb little kid you are.
I won't waste my time explaining anything at all to the likes of you, as it's a waste of time and effort that is better spent on teaching people that accept they don't know anything about it and are looking to learn.

PS: Java doesn't compile to assembly.

Maria Dragoon

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 144

#9637 - 2017-05-12 10:13:55 UTC | Edited by: Maria Dragoon

Linus Gorp wrote:

I'm glad to know our renown research of computer security, right away spouts of drivel about teenagers, children, under-developed brains.

PS: What do you think the JVM is doing? Performing loopdieloops? Actually don't answer that, it java, so the answer is most likely yes.

Double PS: Your attitude tells me that you actually don't know anything, because all you been doing is screaming. "You don't know what you are talking about." An posting Memes from the internet....You know who else can do that? Twelve year olds.

Tripple PS: An if you are talking about the standard compiler to Bytecode then you would be right! There actually compilers that can compile it to native code, an not assembly, mah bad. (but the JVM is converting the code into assembly in the background, so I mean, what-evs.)

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Linus Gorp

Ministry of Propaganda and Morale

Likes received: 1,627

#9638 - 2017-05-12 11:23:01 UTC | Edited by: Linus Gorp

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Linus Gorp wrote:

In case you haven't noticed, I'm engaged in this thread only to troll others and it's working splendid.
Next off, it was obvious from the start that you're just throwing around random words without any regard what they stand for and thus you're just an idiot that doesn't warrant a remotely useful response. If you were even a quarter as smart as you think you are, you'd have seen that right away, but then again, you wouldn't have written such stupid non-sense as you did in the first place.

And no, the JVM isn't "converting" anything into assembly.

What you have shown is a complete lack of understanding of

common cryptography
network stacks
basic IT security
Client-Server communication
Software engineering
Interpreters and compilers

and the list goes on...

Therefor, I concluded that trying to teach you anything at all is a utter waste of time and all you're good for is being trolled to **** by someone way, way, way smarter than you'll ever be.
An average-intelligence person would have seen what's going on. Alas, you did not and that shows you're dumber than the average human being. Congratulations.

Here's something for that peanut brain of yours: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect
You're the perfect example for it. You think you're the boss while you're actually completely clueless.

Maria Dragoon

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 144

#9639 - 2017-05-12 11:42:42 UTC

Linus Gorp wrote:

Maria Dragoon wrote:

Linus Gorp wrote:

common cryptography
network stacks
basic IT security
Client-Server communication
Software engineering
Interpreters and compilers

I think it rather amusing really, this post. "Oh, I'm just trolling, I don't give two *****. I got what I want, which is tears." But the thing is, I'm not even upset, I'm amused, that a highly renowned security researcher is so bored, that he needs to resort to "Trolling" for his kicks. It rather sad if you ask me.

As for the JVM, it in fact is, in fact if you dump this fancy dancy code in your java program, the JVM will start to spit out diagnostic data in assembly.

-XX:+UnlockDiagnosticVMOptions -XX:+PrintAssembly

It rather interesting to see how JVM an Java's garbage collector works when it comes to the assembly side of things.

As for the little list you spat out. Well to be fair, Software engineering really doesn't have anything to do with basic programming skills. Anyone can learn the basics of programming, an thus "modders" are born.

So please, feel free to inform me how small my brain is, because to be frank, all it shows is that you can't handle being called out on what you are doing.

From the 'average' person's perspective, you are pretty much acting like a child, calling someone else names because they didn't agree with them.

So I guess, thanks for the compliments?

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Linus Gorp

Ministry of Propaganda and Morale

Likes received: 1,627

#9640 - 2017-05-12 12:15:59 UTC

Maria Dragoon wrote:

In other words, you don't understand what kind of game EVE is.

Maria Dragoon wrote:

As for the JVM, it in fact is, in fact if you dump this fancy dancy code in your java program, the JVM will start to spit out diagnostic data in assembly.

-XX:+UnlockDiagnosticVMOptions -XX:+PrintAssembly

It rather interesting to see how JVM an Java's garbage collector works when it comes to the assembly side of things.

So you don't even understand the difference between 'code' and 'parameters'. Why am I not surprised?

Maria Dragoon wrote:

From the 'average' person's perspective, you are pretty much acting like a child, calling someone else names because they didn't agree with them.

I don't need you to agree with me. Read my posts again and this time think about what I wrote. All I did right from the start was make fun of you and your incompetence and utter lack of knowledge. All you wrote in response was proof of your incompetence coupled with whining because you can't stand being called out by someone that has factual knowledge about the things that you try to impress and tells you to shut up for your own good.

I don't give two fucks about what you believe or want to believe, but if you keep spreading your bullshit, other uninformed people will believe it, make decisions based on it and make it harder for people like me when we have to clean up that **** and educate them.
People like you are the reason behind massive security flaws that exist "by design", because you dumb ***** think you know how it works and think you can implement it when in fact you're nothing but idiots that can't count 1 and 1 together and shouldn't be anywhere near a remotely critical system.

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