These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8821 - 2017-03-02 14:55:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Naye Nathaniel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Well you may be a in a bomber, but the other 28 are not... Still made me laugh, maybe I should unblock you because that is kinda funny ...


I don't fit a cyno to my bombers, no room. So yea, if you can't handle me in a solo bomber when I am not even in the house let alone at my PC then how are you going to hold your space vs an alliance?


And now you gives as an argument why it should be changed;
Cause you are also using a AFK Cloaking mechanic in your favor, and you even enjoy it as you "can't be touched" -
GG you are blocked now too :)


What he failed to say is that he was part of the fleet that hot dropped Big smile, of course he did not have a cyno...

baltec1 how many accounts do you have, must be loads...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8822 - 2017-03-02 17:30:15 UTC
Naye Nathaniel wrote:


And now you gives as an argument why it should be changed;
Cause you are also using a AFK Cloaking mechanic in your favor, and you even enjoy it as you "can't be touched" -
GG you are blocked now too :)


Him being a coward does not mean a nerf is required. He is asking for 100% safety when ratting.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#8823 - 2017-03-02 19:38:44 UTC
It would only be 100% safety if he could do it afk.

The guy ratting, mining or otherwise doing something in space who has to remain vigilant at all times so as to evade hunters isn't 100% safe. Not even close to it.

The 100% safe guy would be the one either docked or cloaked.

Being butthurt that it's difficult to penetrate enemy space and hunt soft targets with wary pilots should not justify a nearly complete advantage to a solo pilot or even small group against the coordinated efforts of an alliance of hundreds or thousands. Yet apparently that is exactly the state of affairs.

Hopefully the OA will fix this, but I have no doubt that the devs love of this tactic is why we don't have them yet, and probably never will.

Maybe in another decade or two the current crop of devs will be replaced by someone with a more balanced perspective.
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8824 - 2017-03-02 20:29:41 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
It would only be 100% safety if he could do it afk.

The guy ratting, mining or otherwise doing something in space who has to remain vigilant at all times so as to evade hunters isn't 100% safe. Not even close to it.

The 100% safe guy would be the one either docked or cloaked.

Being butthurt that it's difficult to penetrate enemy space and hunt soft targets with wary pilots should not justify a nearly complete advantage to a solo pilot or even small group against the coordinated efforts of an alliance of hundreds or thousands. Yet apparently that is exactly the state of affairs.

Hopefully the OA will fix this, but I have no doubt that the devs love of this tactic is why we don't have them yet, and probably never will.

Maybe in another decade or two the current crop of devs will be replaced by someone with a more balanced perspective.


I always did wonder why goon, test, an pandemic never complained about this problem.....

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#8825 - 2017-03-02 21:28:59 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Being butthurt that it's difficult to penetrate enemy space and hunt soft targets with wary pilots should not justify a nearly complete advantage to a solo pilot or even small group against the coordinated efforts of an alliance of hundreds or thousands. Yet apparently that is exactly the state of affairs.


This "complete advantage" is meaningless against alliances that don't suck. You AFK cloak in their space, they have a defense fleet at all times when potential targets are in space, so all you can do is sit there cloaked. It doesn't matter if you're AFK or ATK, you aren't decloaking or ever being more than a passive spectator while other people have fun. They can't remove you from the system, but they can very easily make your presence irrelevant.

The only people that AFK cloaking is a meaningful "complete advantage" against are the garbage-tier alliances that don't deserve to exist. It's very effective against people that have minimal ability to actively defend their space, and think "my alliance claimed the system and set half of EVE blue, I should be able to solo PvE whenever I want without ever sacrificing ISK per hour". But why should CCP coddle people like that?
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#8826 - 2017-03-02 21:47:20 UTC
So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM?

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#8827 - 2017-03-02 22:09:46 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM?

They don't care about garbage players that have no business being in nullsec but hang out there anyway.
If memory serves me right, we've had whiny afk cloaky threads for close to a decade now. Nothing changed in all that time.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8828 - 2017-03-02 22:16:53 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM?


No one knows, because we have had whiney people who want to keep their easy AFK play style clutter up the thread with pap about local, and post aggressive baloney, the devs have kept well away.

The best thing I saw was Garth Telkin saying that CCP was going to do OS's to give local in sov 0.0, at least I think it was this thread, was some time ago though, but he seemed damned certain it would happen at some point.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8829 - 2017-03-02 22:19:09 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM?



They really havn't given any official stance. The rumor is they do wish to remove local but it so engrained in the legacy code that removing it is a difficult task.



Again that just the rumor.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#8830 - 2017-03-02 23:05:04 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM?


Oh, I've had CCL constantly doing reports as needed on it to keep CCP updated. This way they don't have to go through all the backlogs and such if they need info.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8831 - 2017-03-03 02:32:49 UTC
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM?


Oh, I've had CCL constantly doing reports as needed on it to keep CCP updated. This way they don't have to go through all the backlogs and such if they need info.


Do the reports say anything new or are we just rehashing the same tired arguments? As I don't feel that this thread has made much headway.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8832 - 2017-03-03 06:25:50 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
Orakkus wrote:
So, um ... since this thread has been active for over two years.. what is the current view on this by CCP Developers and the outgoing CSM?


Oh, I've had CCL constantly doing reports as needed on it to keep CCP updated. This way they don't have to go through all the backlogs and such if they need info.


Do the reports say anything new or are we just rehashing the same tired arguments? As I don't feel that this thread has made much headway.


Rehashing...AFK cloaking is almost surely rehashing. Every now and then a little drip comes along from CCP or somewhere but it is mostly rehashing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8833 - 2017-03-03 16:36:54 UTC
I can assure you we are going over the same tired arguments. Everynow and then a new player comes to the thread and posts their idea without reading everything in the op. This starts the cycle all over again.

Last i heard was fozzie saying there's a good reason WH players don't whine about afk cloakers (presumably local, but perhaps also cynos). But that was a long time ago and i haven't heard much on the OA front either.

Amazed that volunteers are still monitoring and reporting on the thread. You guys have patience.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#8834 - 2017-03-03 20:23:47 UTC
Yep. Dev stance seems to be that balance can go hang itself, as disrupting ISK making is the highest priority.

But then, anyone who came to the game for its world building or PvE gameplay knows that those aspects are a bait and switch to provide easy targets for PvP players. It's why they usually don't last and a goodly amount of industry is handled by alts which is in turn why there is such a hue and cry against any sort of substantial development spent on those parts of the game.

The framework of a good game is there, but catering to the PvP crowd for so long has buried it. Maybe eventually it will see a resurgence, nearly all the new players I have ever spoken to, and certainly the half dozen or so friends I personally brought to the game, came for PvE and world building. Almost all have left in a year or two, tired of the one sided PvP mechanics that support and celebrate predatory and toxic gameplay.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8835 - 2017-03-03 20:31:50 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Yep. Dev stance seems to be that balance can go hang itself, as disrupting ISK making is the highest priority.


Maybe they see it as already balanced. Perhaps you should go look at CCP Quandt's monthly reports.

Quote:
But then, anyone who came to the game for its world building or PvE gameplay knows that those aspects are a bait and switch to provide easy targets for PvP players. It's why they usually don't last and a goodly amount of industry is handled by alts which is in turn why there is such a hue and cry against any sort of substantial development spent on those parts of the game.


Mike, you were never going to build anything in this game. You don't have the attitude for it. Me neither, for that matter. I don't have the time for it. I'm fine be a foot soldier for larger groups.

And empire building is not in the least worried/concerned about AFK cloaking. Not one major power block even gives it the time of day.

Quote:
The framework of a good game is there, but catering to the PvP crowd for so long has buried it. Maybe eventually it will see a resurgence, nearly all the new players I have ever spoken to, and certainly the half dozen or so friends I personally brought to the game, came for PvE and world building. Almost all have left in a year or two, tired of the one sided PvP mechanics that support and celebrate predatory and toxic gameplay.


The game is an open classless system with very few rules--i.e. a sandbox. Whether that leads to PvP or cooperation or both (and this is what we actually have, both cooperation and competition) is dependent on the players, not the Devs. This is largely a player driven game. And the players who build in the game. They build empires, both in NS, LS, and even HS (Red Frog Freight, for the latter). It is not a game for players who need to have their hand held.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8836 - 2017-03-03 20:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Lol or there are posts like that baiting players which also starts the whole thing again.

Edit- as if predatory gameplay is even a bad thing in a pvp mmo.

Go on voidster, tell me how im a murderer again because i enjoy pvp.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#8837 - 2017-03-03 20:37:45 UTC
Sandbox went out the window a long time ago.

Sure, you can choose to play anyway you want, but there is a right way (predatory PvP) and a wrong way (anything not predatory PvP) way to play.

Afk camping is just a symptom of a much larger problem.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8838 - 2017-03-03 20:43:31 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Sandbox went out the window a long time ago.

Sure, you can choose to play anyway you want, but there is a right way (predatory PvP) and a wrong way (anything not predatory PvP) way to play.

Afk camping is just a symptom of a much larger problem.


Nope, this is still a sandbox game despite some of CCP's recent changes limiting areas of the sandbox, namely HS.

And you are wrong, if you don't see cooperation in the game you are just not looking hard enough. Every alliance represents some degree of cooperation. Every corporation represents a degree of cooperation. Players both compete (PvP) and cooperate.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#8839 - 2017-03-03 21:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Linus Gorp
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Yep. Dev stance seems to be that balance can go hang itself, as disrupting ISK making is the highest priority.

But then, anyone who came to the game for its world building or PvE gameplay knows that those aspects are a bait and switch to provide easy targets for PvP players. It's why they usually don't last and a goodly amount of industry is handled by alts which is in turn why there is such a hue and cry against any sort of substantial development spent on those parts of the game.

The framework of a good game is there, but catering to the PvP crowd for so long has buried it. Maybe eventually it will see a resurgence, nearly all the new players I have ever spoken to, and certainly the half dozen or so friends I personally brought to the game, came for PvE and world building. Almost all have left in a year or two, tired of the one sided PvP mechanics that support and celebrate predatory and toxic gameplay.

Nullsec is first and foremost a PvP zone. Don't like it? Go back to highsec.
EVE Online is and has always been a PvP game. It was built to be exactly that. This is nothing the devs overlooked, this is intentional game design. Everything centers around and works only because this is a PvP-first game. Without PvP, the economy wouldn't and couldn't work the way it does. We could not have a near-autonomous economy without spaceships blowing up left, right and center.

PvE in EVE is just a means to build and afford ships to PvP in. You're playing a PvP game and complain about PvP. Nullsec has increased rewards, but those are supposed to come with increased risk. You want to opt out of any risk in a ******* PvP zone.

When all you care about is carebearing and your trash tier alliance can't defend their own space, then neither you nor your trash tier alliance have any business being in nullsec.
You are not entitled to have your own space, you are not entitled to risk-free isk making and you god damn are not entitled to opt out of PvP in a PvP-centric game.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#8840 - 2017-03-03 22:12:31 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Yep. Dev stance seems to be that balance can go hang itself, as disrupting ISK making is the highest priority.


Highsec level 4 missions continue to exist without disruption, giving you safe and efficient ISK making. And even 0.0 PvE that is supposedly threatened by AFK cloaking is only disrupted by AFK cloaking if your alliance sucks. If your alliance is capable of doing that world-building and successfully organizing PvE operations in 0.0 an AFK cloaker is a negligible threat. So no, disrupting ISK making is not the highest priority just because lazy PvE players can't farm anomalies in complete safety in 0.0.

Quote:
But then, anyone who came to the game for its world building or PvE gameplay knows that those aspects are a bait and switch to provide easy targets for PvP players.


EVE is a PvP game. If you came to EVE for the PvE you came to the wrong game, and it's best for everyone that you move on to something more appropriate for your needs.

PS: all that industry stuff is PvP. You're competing directly with other players even if no weapons are fired.

Quote:
Almost all have left in a year or two, tired of the one sided PvP mechanics that support and celebrate predatory and toxic gameplay.


Sorry, but EVE has been "predatory and toxic" from day 1. Survival of the fittest is a primary design goal for the game. If you are the victim of "predatory and toxic" PvP then you either get better at the game, take the initiative, and kill the predators until you are no longer prey, or you ragequit and we all laugh at your tears. Coddling bad players who are too weak to be anything but prey has not been, and hopefully will not ever be, a design goal.