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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Maekchu
Doomheim
#8361 - 2017-01-13 18:03:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Funki Ellecon wrote:
Lol my post got closed cause its as they say redundant to this one . THIS POST IS NOW ALMOST 2 YEARS HERE AND SOLUTION NOWHERE . Hey CCP are you actually checking this post or you just wanted to put it on one place so you dont have to be bothered by it ?

Oh, so your solution/post wasn't a special snow flake after all? :D

On a more serious note, pretty much every argument has been discussed here and finding a solution is really not that easy.

But I think CCP are still planning on that intel gathering structure, which is what people are waiting for. Maybe within the context of the new structure, afk-cloaking isn't a thing. One just gotta be patient.
Walterberg Redman
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8362 - 2017-01-13 20:21:13 UTC
IF THIS IS THE DEV FEATURE SUGGESTION FORUM THEN YOU GOT TO IMPLEMENT THIS FEATURE:

its simple .... our accounts have 3 character slots ... and people make multiple accounts to have an advantage

i dont want to do that so...

SOLUTION: give us a feature where we could log in on all 3 characters at the same time and SWITCH BETWEEN THEM LIKE IN GTAV
Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8363 - 2017-01-13 20:25:43 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Funki Ellecon wrote:
Lol my post got closed cause its as they say redundant to this one . THIS POST IS NOW ALMOST 2 YEARS HERE AND SOLUTION NOWHERE . Hey CCP are you actually checking this post or you just wanted to put it on one place so you dont have to be bothered by it ?

Oh, so your solution/post wasn't a special snow flake after all? :D

On a more serious note, pretty much every argument has been discussed here and finding a solution is really not that easy.

But I think CCP are still planning on that intel gathering structure, which is what people are waiting for. Maybe within the context of the new structure, afk-cloaking isn't a thing. One just gotta be patient.



It was never supposed to be special . It was supposed to be exactly what it was named . Question to the Developers . Not my fault you started to polute my post .
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#8364 - 2017-01-13 20:36:25 UTC
Funki Ellecon wrote:
Lol my post got closed cause its as they say redundant to this one . THIS POST IS NOW ALMOST 2 YEARS HERE AND SOLUTION NOWHERE . Hey CCP are you actually checking this post or you just wanted to put it on one place so you dont have to be bothered by it ?



It's almost like there's a huge difference between something you personally struggle with, and something that's actually broken from a game-wide perspective.

This thread isn't here to "fix" AFK cloaking - it's here to herd all the shiptoasters into one place so their whining won't bother everyone else.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Maekchu
Doomheim
#8365 - 2017-01-13 20:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Funki Ellecon wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
Funki Ellecon wrote:
Lol my post got closed cause its as they say redundant to this one . THIS POST IS NOW ALMOST 2 YEARS HERE AND SOLUTION NOWHERE . Hey CCP are you actually checking this post or you just wanted to put it on one place so you dont have to be bothered by it ?

Oh, so your solution/post wasn't a special snow flake after all? :D

On a more serious note, pretty much every argument has been discussed here and finding a solution is really not that easy.

But I think CCP are still planning on that intel gathering structure, which is what people are waiting for. Maybe within the context of the new structure, afk-cloaking isn't a thing. One just gotta be patient.



It was never supposed to be special . It was supposed to be exactly what it was named . Question to the Developers . Not my fault you started to polute my post .

So it's because of me your post got locked? Not because it was just another reiteration of a post that has been posted a gazillion times? :D
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8366 - 2017-01-13 20:41:14 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I see you did not mention AFK in your reply?

I didn't mention it because it's irrelevant. Going AFK while cloaked or docked provides players with the same absolute safety* and has the same impact on the perception of local, and it's that perception that is ultimately driving the issue.


*It actually provides more safety to the docked player, but, for sake of argument, I'm willing to assume it's the same.


I have never seen anyone do a cyno inside a station...


Never seen anyone AFK do a cyno. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8367 - 2017-01-13 21:06:21 UTC
Funki Ellecon wrote:
Cloacky camping . - are you guys kidding me ? why is this still alowed . one person with few accounts can camp whole aliance for months without any effort what so ever . he need just to train Cyno to lvl 1 and cloak lvl 1 . ( and cloack lvl 5 and cyno lvl 5 is not that hard to skill neither . will take how many 3 Skill injectors ? ) . Now you will tell me that we should form defensive fleets . guard the entrances etc . Its significantly harder to keep defensive fleet over multiple systems or constelations then to let some people has sitting in BOs or Bombers somewhere in POS or NPC station .

Solutions are many for example : why Cloak is not taking cap ( stopped cap regen when cloacked ) Overheating the module - so after some time module would need to be repaired . Which would still alow some form of camping . but people would need to made effort not just make safe cloak and sit go sleep etc. Mining , you need to switch roids compress ore , dich ore in containers . Ratting or missions you have to warp arround target rats shoot . everything requires some kind of effort exept this . You sit in sistem on your laptop for example doing nothing . time to time press directionscan and if see something warp to it light cyno kill it and resume again offline camp .


From your locked thread....

No, it is more like 5 or 6 injectors and since you can only fit those items to certain ships, more than that and longer training times that you are implying. You should make your ratting ships your defensive fleet if you have an AFK cloaker in system(s). Rat in groups, with PvP fit ships. Be on comms, be in fleet. Take measures to protect yourself from this potential threat.

Your solutions are old and tired and they punish non-AFK cloaking players such as people doing exploration or who are actively hunting with cloaking ships.

All your other activities you point out need player attention actually get you stuff--minerals, ISK, loot, etc. Since AFK cloaking gets the person doing it nothing why should it require effort. Why should I have to expend effort to do literally nothing? That just sounds so stupid based on the inherent contradiction: to do nothing you should expend effort.

Oh, and if the guy is pressing d-scan he is not AFK. Nobody AFK can press d-scan...why would they even want too?

Seriously, you started a thread for which not only is there an open thread but stickied as well. BTW on the first page is a list of all the ****** ideas people have come up with regarding cloaking. You might want to read through it so you don't just regurgitate all that stupid all over your future posts.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8368 - 2017-01-13 22:04:28 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Funki Ellecon wrote:
Cloacky camping . - are you guys kidding me ? why is this still alowed . one person with few accounts can camp whole aliance for months without any effort what so ever . he need just to train Cyno to lvl 1 and cloak lvl 1 . ( and cloack lvl 5 and cyno lvl 5 is not that hard to skill neither . will take how many 3 Skill injectors ? ) . Now you will tell me that we should form defensive fleets . guard the entrances etc . Its significantly harder to keep defensive fleet over multiple systems or constelations then to let some people has sitting in BOs or Bombers somewhere in POS or NPC station .

Solutions are many for example : why Cloak is not taking cap ( stopped cap regen when cloacked ) Overheating the module - so after some time module would need to be repaired . Which would still alow some form of camping . but people would need to made effort not just make safe cloak and sit go sleep etc. Mining , you need to switch roids compress ore , dich ore in containers . Ratting or missions you have to warp arround target rats shoot . everything requires some kind of effort exept this . You sit in sistem on your laptop for example doing nothing . time to time press directionscan and if see something warp to it light cyno kill it and resume again offline camp .


From your locked thread....

No, it is more like 5 or 6 injectors and since you can only fit those items to certain ships, more than that and longer training times that you are implying. You should make your ratting ships your defensive fleet if you have an AFK cloaker in system(s). Rat in groups, with PvP fit ships. Be on comms, be in fleet. Take measures to protect yourself from this potential threat.

Your solutions are old and tired and they punish non-AFK cloaking players such as people doing exploration or who are actively hunting with cloaking ships.

All your other activities you point out need player attention actually get you stuff--minerals, ISK, loot, etc. Since AFK cloaking gets the person doing it nothing why should it require effort. Why should I have to expend effort to do literally nothing? That just sounds so stupid based on the inherent contradiction: to do nothing you should expend effort.

Oh, and if the guy is pressing d-scan he is not AFK. Nobody AFK can press d-scan...why would they even want too?

Seriously, you started a thread for which not only is there an open thread but stickied as well. BTW on the first page is a list of all the ****** ideas people have come up with regarding cloaking. You might want to read through it so you don't just regurgitate all that stupid all over your future posts.



To Maekchu : did i say cause of you my post got locked ? No

To:Teckos Pech

to your first point - We are in fleet , we are on coms and we are taking measures to protect ourselfs .
Really how long takes to train frigate to lvl 5 , cov ops lets say at least lvl 3 , Cyno to lvl 5 and cloak lvl 5 . How much is that skills points 5 injectors is 2 mil SP . i think is more then enough . But i admit i can be wrong its long time since i was skilling those .

To the point of punishing exploration. I am doing explo. quite a bit with my alt and must say i never stay cloaked more than 10 minutes . { only thing that solutions takes from people be able to go afk and be cloaked in space for extend amount of time lets say for sake of the argumet over 30 minutes without doing anything .


yes but cloaked person in system is not doing nothing { i know you will try to play with my words in this case but you know what i mean } , he is there for a reason to disrupt Ratting/mining just by presence, logged in without any movement or effort to do it .

About AFK pressing D-scan i will not talk about it . You know what i mean so dont play stupid . Same with the cyno .


But on other note there was slight improvment in last few years to ban Command broadcast . I remember when living in Querios we have been camped i mean whole querios by One single person . Who was multiboxing 20 bombers at once . That was pretty awesome on his part but pretty bad from our point of view . So now at least there are active people on the end .

The arrays CCP talking about sounds great but i am little bit skeptic about them . Wonder why ?

i was looking trough forum but found only few closed topics . but could not find the active one . so i posted one . And i really dont think i am first or last that created same post as someone before me . Almost everything here has been posted over and over and over .
Maekchu
Doomheim
#8369 - 2017-01-13 22:17:31 UTC
Funki Ellecon wrote:

To Maekchu : did i say cause of you my post got locked ? No

You kinda did by stating that I "polluted" your post or at least you insinuated that I degraded the value of your thread by my response.

Your thread was **** from the start. I merely provided you with a different view from yours.
Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8370 - 2017-01-13 22:35:17 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Funki Ellecon wrote:

To Maekchu : did i say cause of you my post got locked ? No

You kinda did by stating that I "polluted" your post or at least you insinuated that I degraded the value of your thread by my response.

Your thread was **** from the start. I merely provided you with a different view from yours.



Probably poor choice of words on my side . Not degraded the post . But i would just prefer if someone from CCP would respond . I am pretty familiar with the standing of the community . There is two camps one who use it one who hates it . i Think my thread wasnt **** . It was just presenting my point of view on the problem . And provided some possible solutions .
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#8371 - 2017-01-13 22:40:58 UTC
Funki Ellecon wrote:
To the point of punishing exploration. I am doing explo. quite a bit with my alt and must say i never stay cloaked more than 10 minutes . { only thing that solutions takes from people be able to go afk and be cloaked in space for extend amount of time lets say for sake of the argumet over 30 minutes without doing anything .


You've never lived in a WH, have you?
Maekchu
Doomheim
#8372 - 2017-01-13 22:52:30 UTC
Funki Ellecon wrote:
Probably poor choice of words on my side . Not degraded the post . But i would just prefer if someone from CCP would respond . I am pretty familiar with the standing of the community . There is two camps one who use it one who hates it . i Think my thread wasnt **** . It was just presenting my point of view on the problem . And provided some possible solutions .

Aight, I'll retract my statement that your thread was ****, since we are starting to be a bit more civilized. However, it was redundant as you can see by the 419 pages of this threadnaught.

Given that this topic has been discussed to death and no one really knows how to optimally solve this problem with the current mechanics, you shouldn't hope for a direct response from CCP. Their response is basically, the fact that they are working on some form of intel structure.
Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8373 - 2017-01-13 22:57:35 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Funki Ellecon wrote:
To the point of punishing exploration. I am doing explo. quite a bit with my alt and must say i never stay cloaked more than 10 minutes . { only thing that solutions takes from people be able to go afk and be cloaked in space for extend amount of time lets say for sake of the argumet over 30 minutes without doing anything .


You've never lived in a WH, have you?



Yes i did . Was living in C5 for about 4 months . Was doing some Dread ratting . Never felt safer to be honest . WH space is pretty much dead . was living out of POS .
Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8374 - 2017-01-13 22:59:51 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Funki Ellecon wrote:
Probably poor choice of words on my side . Not degraded the post . But i would just prefer if someone from CCP would respond . I am pretty familiar with the standing of the community . There is two camps one who use it one who hates it . i Think my thread wasnt **** . It was just presenting my point of view on the problem . And provided some possible solutions .

Aight, I'll retract my statement that your thread was ****, since we are starting to be a bit more civilized. However, it was redundant as you can see by the 419 pages of this threadnaught.

Given that this topic has been discussed to death and no one really knows how to optimally solve this problem with the current mechanics, you shouldn't hope for a direct response from CCP. Their response is basically, the fact that they are working on some form of intel structure.



Like i said earlier . Did not find any open topic about this . When Mod closed my topic i asked him if he can link the "static one " he did and thats how i came here . And yes would be awesome if CCP finaly gave us some kind of response when solution is coming . And i can always hope :D
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#8375 - 2017-01-13 23:27:31 UTC
Funki Ellecon wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
Funki Ellecon wrote:
Probably poor choice of words on my side . Not degraded the post . But i would just prefer if someone from CCP would respond . I am pretty familiar with the standing of the community . There is two camps one who use it one who hates it . i Think my thread wasnt **** . It was just presenting my point of view on the problem . And provided some possible solutions .

Aight, I'll retract my statement that your thread was ****, since we are starting to be a bit more civilized. However, it was redundant as you can see by the 419 pages of this threadnaught.

Given that this topic has been discussed to death and no one really knows how to optimally solve this problem with the current mechanics, you shouldn't hope for a direct response from CCP. Their response is basically, the fact that they are working on some form of intel structure.



Like i said earlier . Did not find any open topic about this . When Mod closed my topic i asked him if he can link the "static one " he did and thats how i came here . And yes would be awesome if CCP finaly gave us some kind of response when solution is coming . And i can always hope :D


There already is a solution. It's called growing a pair and countering his drop/baiting him out/figuring out when they are likely online/moving to another system/etc.

But that's not enough because of ISK/hour.

Wormholer for life.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8376 - 2017-01-13 23:52:51 UTC
Funki Ellecon wrote:

to your first point - We are in fleet , we are on coms and we are taking measures to protect ourselfs .
Really how long takes to train frigate to lvl 5 , cov ops lets say at least lvl 3 , Cyno to lvl 5 and cloak lvl 5 . How much is that skills points 5 injectors is 2 mil SP . i think is more then enough . But i admit i can be wrong its long time since i was skilling those .


I am at work...so just going by number of injectors and going to say 4 months. To get to cloaking level 5 that is over 1.5 million SP I believe, that right there eats up most of your injectors. and 5 injectors is close to 3 months worth of PLEX.

Quote:
To the point of punishing exploration. I am doing explo. quite a bit with my alt and must say i never stay cloaked more than 10 minutes . { only thing that solutions takes from people be able to go afk and be cloaked in space for extend amount of time lets say for sake of the argumet over 30 minutes without doing anything .


Why should your exploration game be nerfed so that we can stop AFK cloaking? If the person does nothing for 30 minutes is that not 30 minutes you can do something? I know, I know, "They might come back at any moment!" Yes, I know...exciting isn't it?

Quote:
yes but cloaked person in system is not doing nothing { i know you will try to play with my words in this case but you know what i mean } , he is there for a reason to disrupt Ratting/mining just by presence, logged in without any movement or effort to do it .


If I am cloaked in system and AFK my character is doing literally nothing to gain any resources, ISK or anything else. If fact, there is a cost to doing this.

Quote:
About AFK pressing D-scan i will not talk about it . You know what i mean so dont play stupid . Same with the cyno .


So you just want to nerf cloaks in general an not AFK cloaking? And it is not stupid to point out that AFK players do nothing in terms of d-scan, cynos, guns, tackle, etc. All they do is sit in local like a bogeyman and scare you....not unlike a scarecrow.

As for AFK cloaking threads there is the front page of this which has alot of closed threads, and a link to my old thread which has yet more horrible ideas to "counter cloaking".

BTW, we haven't even gotten to the point that AFK cloaking is the only counter to local as an intel tool.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Admiral Sarah Solette
Lmao Ty For Structure
#8377 - 2017-01-14 00:00:19 UTC
'Hahaha if they're afk they can't hurt you! Afks can't light cynos! Haha I'm so clever! Hahaha hey guys, Eve has sound?!?! Haha oh man I'm hilarious!!'

Either a bunch of people in this thread are actually ******** or are just pretending to be ********.

Like no **** an afk person can't harm you, but how do you know if they're afk or not? Nobody is claiming actual afk capsuleers are hurting anyone. They're talking about how you don't know if they're actually afk or whether they're getting ready to cyno in a legion if bombers on top of you.

Also, lmfao at the people claiming afk cloakers are just "shattering the illusion of safety that local gives you and adding risk to null", all the while the cloaking ships sit completely invulnerable and safe, cloaked up somewhere in space.

Why can't we have specialized combat probes for scanning down cloaked ships? They can even scan and function slower than normal combat probes. That way the cloaky camper can't just sit in complete safety? Why would that be such a hard system to impliment? That way, the cloaky camper at least has some amount of risk instead of being completely safe.
Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8378 - 2017-01-14 00:04:58 UTC
That would be interesting . I am curious how many supers would die to this just in first week of this being implemented .
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8379 - 2017-01-14 00:23:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Admiral Sarah Solette wrote:
'Hahaha if they're afk they can't hurt you! Afks can't light cynos! Haha I'm so clever! Hahaha hey guys, Eve has sound?!?! Haha oh man I'm hilarious!!'

Either a bunch of people in this thread are actually ******** or are just pretending to be ********.

Like no **** an afk person can't harm you, but how do you know if they're afk or not? Nobody is claiming actual afk capsuleers are hurting anyone. They're talking about how you don't know if they're actually afk or whether they're getting ready to cyno in a legion if bombers on top of you.


If you can't handle that level of risk/uncertainty...why not go back to HS?

Quote:
Also, lmfao at the people claiming afk cloakers are just "shattering the illusion of safety that local gives you and adding risk to null", all the while the cloaking ships sit completely invulnerable and safe, cloaked up somewhere in space.


You should probably reconsider calling others ******** or whatever when you clearly want to have it both ways here. If they are invulnerable and safe at a safe spot...then so are you while you rat.

Quote:
Why can't we have specialized combat probes for scanning down cloaked ships? They can even scan and function slower than normal combat probes. That way the cloaky camper can't just sit in complete safety? Why would that be such a hard system to impliment? That way, the cloaky camper at least has some amount of risk instead of being completely safe.


Because you along with the safety/risk mitigation that local provides this would be unbalanced. There should be a way to counter local...and as bad as it is...it is the cloaking device. For now.

Of course, my hope (and there is some reason to think this is what CCP is working on) is that the observatory array will let you hunt down cloaked ships sitting too long at a safe. But at the same time local will go away and you'll have to rely on the observatory array for intel...something that can be shot/off-lined/and/or/destroyed.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#8380 - 2017-01-14 03:32:27 UTC
Admiral Sarah Solette wrote:
Why can't we have specialized combat probes for scanning down cloaked ships? They can even scan and function slower than normal combat probes. That way the cloaky camper can't just sit in complete safety? Why would that be such a hard system to impliment? That way, the cloaky camper at least has some amount of risk instead of being completely safe.


A)This would be a fine solution if local wasn't 100% instant, reliable intel, and equally if not more devoid of risk. If you had to risk something to get intel, then it would make sense that cloaking wasn't quite so 'free' either. Cloaking and Local are equally broken mechanics that combine to make a rather level playing field.

B)If they are camping one system, move to another.

C)Have you ever been counter-dropped? It's like this - in places like Providence, you never have to worry about a counter-drop, as the residents are seldom organized enough or have the sense of unity to actually defend their space. Camping one system is extremely effective, and can shut it down. If you do the same thing to an entity that is organized and committed to their space, you will find a preponderance of bait in your camped system. Actively hunting has a bit of a lower chance of finding deliberate bait.

D)Typically you should try the activity from both sides before decrying it as broken. Have you cloaky camped?

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?