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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#8341 - 2017-01-03 14:32:52 UTC
Xcom wrote:
Its pointless arguing honestly. Some people think that its ok to camp for weeks abusing the safety of cloaks. Others realize there should be balance where all the responsibility of safety shouldn't sit on pve activity.


There is a balance. No one can ever hurt you when cloaked.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8342 - 2017-01-03 17:09:51 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Xcom wrote:
Its pointless arguing honestly. Some people think that its ok to camp for weeks abusing the safety of cloaks. Others realize there should be balance where all the responsibility of safety shouldn't sit on pve activity.


There is a balance. No one can ever hurt you when cloaked.


Plus there are large drawbacks to both fitting a normal cloak and to ships that can use the cov ops cloak.
Xcom
US Space Force
Black Rose.
#8343 - 2017-01-05 14:01:09 UTC
Thank you for your input, I disagree. The act of cloaking needs nerfed, I think its overpowered as there are no hard counters to balance it. End of the discussion.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#8344 - 2017-01-05 14:35:17 UTC
Xcom wrote:
Thank you for your input, I disagree. The act of cloaking needs nerfed, I think its overpowered as there are no hard counters to balance it. End of the discussion.


Not everything requires a hard counter. There are many things in the game that don't have a hard counter.

Wormholer for life.
Nuhrp
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8345 - 2017-01-06 00:24:30 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
As a dirty cloaker I feel the problem is psychological, not mechanical. That said, the psychological fear seems to stem primarily from cynos, which are a largely broken mechanic (imo). Anywhere that cynos are not a threat, cloaky camping is not widely feared. Not a coincidence!



This reminds me what to ask the next CSM debate.:
Have you ever AFK camped? = No vote
Do you gank in high? = No vote

Thanks
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8346 - 2017-01-06 14:27:19 UTC
Xcom wrote:
Thank you for your input, I disagree. The act of cloaking needs nerfed, I think its overpowered as there are no hard counters to balance it. End of the discussion.


Why should there be a hard counter to cloaking?

There are no counters to local or being docked either.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8347 - 2017-01-06 17:17:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Xcom wrote:
Thank you for your input, I disagree. The act of cloaking needs nerfed, I think its overpowered as there are no hard counters to balance it. End of the discussion.


Why should there be a hard counter to cloaking?

There are no counters to local or being docked either.


Exactly, where can I find local and shoot it so you don't have it, at least temporarily?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lienzo
Amanuensis
#8348 - 2017-01-07 03:42:35 UTC
Just keep ships in space after logoff.
Limur Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8349 - 2017-01-10 12:55:06 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Limur Deninard wrote:
Cloaking devices have to use fuel, covert ops will eat more fuel than non-covert ops devices.


And at a stroke you just wiped out a lot of pvp and exploration.


Yup. Lets punish ATK cloakers to impose a restriction on AFK cloakers.

Worst. Idea. Ever.

How about this, ratting ships should have a timer too. You can rat for 1 hour/day and if you don't use it you lose it.


Nope, I wish to kill cloacky stratios which usually ~500mil. How can I catch it is? I see it will give more opportunity to kill expensive ships and solo PvP because stratios might be alone without fuel.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8350 - 2017-01-11 16:18:04 UTC
Limur Deninard wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Limur Deninard wrote:
Cloaking devices have to use fuel, covert ops will eat more fuel than non-covert ops devices.


And at a stroke you just wiped out a lot of pvp and exploration.


Yup. Lets punish ATK cloakers to impose a restriction on AFK cloakers.

Worst. Idea. Ever.

How about this, ratting ships should have a timer too. You can rat for 1 hour/day and if you don't use it you lose it.


Nope, I wish to kill cloacky stratios which usually ~500mil. How can I catch it is? I see it will give more opportunity to kill expensive ships and solo PvP because stratios might be alone without fuel.


Fit cap batteries, kill its drones, nos it and let it run out of cap.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#8351 - 2017-01-11 16:37:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Xcom wrote:
Thank you for your input, I disagree. The act of cloaking needs nerfed, I think its overpowered as there are no hard counters to balance it. End of the discussion.


Why should there be a hard counter to cloaking?

There are no counters to local or being docked either.

Quoting for emphasis.

Pilots in nullsec can operate in absolute safety if local is friendly. There is no hard counter to that either.

The choice to stay docked up if there is a cloaked hostile in system is yours, not the cloaked pilot's. They aren't forcing you to do anything. How do you implement a hard counter on your decision-making process?

Friendly local = absolute safety.
CovOps cloak in hostile system = absolute safety*.

Seems balanced to me.


*Unless you get caught on a gate, mess up and warp to zero, etc.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#8352 - 2017-01-11 16:49:29 UTC
Let me put it another way.

Player X is in a nullsec system, happily doing what they want to do.

Player Y, in the same nullsec system, performs Action Z, which strongly influences, but doesn't force, Player X to do something else they'd rather not be doing.


This scenario is the same if Action Z is "cloak up and AFK-camp the system" or "dock up and avoid combat". Cloak-camping to deny PvE content is no different than docking up to deny PvP content, except that the latter actually has better tools at their disposal.

So long as nullsec players in general, and nullsec sov holders in particular, have perfect intel (local) and perfect safety (docking), there is no rational way to claim that cloaking is in any way overpowered.

Also, insert obligatory "AFK ships cannot hurt you ever" here.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#8353 - 2017-01-11 21:42:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Limur Deninard wrote:

Nope, I wish to kill cloacky stratios which usually ~500mil. How can I catch it is? I see it will give more opportunity to kill expensive ships and solo PvP because stratios might be alone without fuel.


Fit cap batteries, kill its drones, nos it and let it run out of cap.


Or use a passive tank. Ran into trouble with a buddy. He found a VNI in a belt. We discussed and thought…hmmm…bait. But it was a slow night, and I was next door. He was in a stratios, I was in a T3 proteus cloaky and nullified. So he engaged, I warped to the gate and while in warp, we realized, not only bait, but well fit bait. The VNI had neut in the highs along with autocannons. His tank was entirely passive, a 1600mm steel plate II, DC II, 2x EANM and 2x drone damage mods. Nothing to neut out except his mid slot tackle mods and the neut…he killed the stratios before I landed in the belt, and even then killing him was not easy. As his buddies landed I warped off with several my modules burnt out and most of my armor gone.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Slade Onzo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8354 - 2017-01-12 16:26:11 UTC
Hey, this thread is 2 years old and its still active!
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8355 - 2017-01-12 18:41:51 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Xcom wrote:
Thank you for your input, I disagree. The act of cloaking needs nerfed, I think its overpowered as there are no hard counters to balance it. End of the discussion.


Why should there be a hard counter to cloaking?

There are no counters to local or being docked either.

Quoting for emphasis.

Pilots in nullsec can operate in absolute safety if local is friendly. There is no hard counter to that either.

The choice to stay docked up if there is a cloaked hostile in system is yours, not the cloaked pilot's. They aren't forcing you to do anything. How do you implement a hard counter on your decision-making process?

Friendly local = absolute safety.
CovOps cloak in hostile system = absolute safety*.

Seems balanced to me.


*Unless you get caught on a gate, mess up and warp to zero, etc.


I see you did not mention AFK in your reply?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#8356 - 2017-01-13 13:12:06 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
I see you did not mention AFK in your reply?

I didn't mention it because it's irrelevant. Going AFK while cloaked or docked provides players with the same absolute safety* and has the same impact on the perception of local, and it's that perception that is ultimately driving the issue.


*It actually provides more safety to the docked player, but, for sake of argument, I'm willing to assume it's the same.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#8357 - 2017-01-13 13:23:13 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I see you did not mention AFK in your reply?

I didn't mention it because it's irrelevant. Going AFK while cloaked or docked provides players with the same absolute safety* and has the same impact on the perception of local, and it's that perception that is ultimately driving the issue.


*It actually provides more safety to the docked player, but, for sake of argument, I'm willing to assume it's the same.


I have never seen anyone do a cyno inside a station...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Funki Ellecon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8358 - 2017-01-13 17:59:48 UTC
Lol my post got closed cause its as they say redundant to this one . THIS POST IS NOW ALMOST 2 YEARS HERE AND SOLUTION NOWHERE . Hey CCP are you actually checking this post or you just wanted to put it on one place so you dont have to be bothered by it ?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8359 - 2017-01-13 18:02:32 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I see you did not mention AFK in your reply?

I didn't mention it because it's irrelevant. Going AFK while cloaked or docked provides players with the same absolute safety* and has the same impact on the perception of local, and it's that perception that is ultimately driving the issue.


*It actually provides more safety to the docked player, but, for sake of argument, I'm willing to assume it's the same.


I have never seen anyone do a cyno inside a station...


No one has lit a cyno whilst cloaked either.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8360 - 2017-01-13 18:03:19 UTC
Funki Ellecon wrote:
Lol my post got closed cause its as they say redundant to this one . THIS POST IS NOW ALMOST 2 YEARS HERE AND SOLUTION NOWHERE . Hey CCP are you actually checking this post or you just wanted to put it on one place so you dont have to be bothered by it ?


Read the opening post.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs