Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Well cats out of the bag. This right here, your exact examples are the problem of cloaks. Your defending it with every tooth and nail knowing its over powered. You shouldn't expect going into danger and expect to survive. You should die and thats normal when diving into space that is inhospitable. Your using mechanics that get around the danger and think its ok. Well someones paying for your workarounds and its the people who are hunting you expecting to get kills. Your denying the kills using a cloak and then complain that local is the counter? you take us for fools?

Its easy defending something broken when your abusing it.

LOL
You cant go back on your words. They are quoted right up there 3 posts up. You really slipped and spilled the beans. Anything for anyone claiming they want risk free pve really is trying to divert the conversation to bullshit topics just to divert from the main one. Risk free intel gathering or pvp avoidance.

You are incorrect because you are using a faulty premise, that cloaks provide perfect safety, they don't. A casual stroll through any killboard will show this is not true, that ships that fit cloaks do indeed die. If you actually used an honest starting position then a discussion can start, but either you can't or won't.

A cloaked ship at a safe spot is very safe. This point has been covered repeatedly in this thread. Nobody denies it.

However, a cloaked ship that is on the move going through gates and even warping around to objects in a given system faces varying degrees of risk and they can and are killed.

Further, few people would argue that AFK cloaking is awesome. However, it currently is the only way to degrade the intel local provides. Many people here actually agree that moving intel into the hands of the players, changing local, and letting cloaked ships be scanned could be a positive change.

Techos you sound like a broken record, we both agree on changing the cloaking problem in the same way. You just want it an inch to the left and have OA come first, I don't. I want cloaks to be fixed now and let OA come when its flushed out and ready. If you still have something to disagree with that then your an idiot because its the same, just in a different order.

I've blopsed a lot in this game. A lot. For most of it, I hunted, but hunting is impossible if you want to do something to people with very few systems, especially if they have geography which lends itself to early warnings. Thus you have to camp.

Now, there are the majority of people who, when camped, have no cohesion at all, are all in a null alliance for them and theirs, and refuse to do anything about campers, as it is easier to find another alliance to live under that is not being camped, and continue to get their ratting on. These people quite frankly did not belong in null in the first place, and there is no real loss. Then there are people like goons, which you will only motivate by camping, because they have a strong cultural unity and grow attached to their alliance and the space it owns. They will actually prepare counter-drops, baits, and the like to put the fear of Poitot into would be hooligans. These people deserve to live in null because they understand teamwork.

It only lowers activity of people who belong in Hi-Sec. If you just want to shoot rats in perfect safety, go do incursions in Hi-Sec, it is good money. Now, if you want to participate in a grand scale player versus player, empire versus empire type deal where there is never safey, please join a nullsec alliance, and appreciate null for what it is.

Local is so broken a mechanic, the only possible mechanic that can coexist with it and maintain the balance is cloaky camping. Both are horrible, granted, but they justify each other's existence. Everything that you are saying about cloaky camping is true about local, if not to an even greater extent, where it lowers activity, risk, and the potential for interactions.

It's plain silly. Nullsec is supposed to be dangerous, and sometimes the only way to keep it dangerous is to cloaky camp. The question people need to ask themselves is, am I built for nullsec? Can I get like-minded friends who want to counter or bait out some blops hot-shots and their multibillion isk pwnmobiles? If not, you do not belong in null. Period.

All I got out of this is that goons have the firepower to counter drop and smaller null alliances don't so they don't belong there.

Vic you probably glanced the thread, your name seams unfamiliar. All those who are pro change want more meaningful pvp where discusting camping tactics cant be used. Its not making null less safe if other mechanics later on gets added to make it so. Its just that camping will be gone.

Why would you swap to a pvp ship when you can't shoot the hostile cloak? even worse when your in WS, how are you going to warp off to get into a pvp ship when your pointed? given that cloaked ships don't really give of any warnings before they point you.

So all your telling by this is that cloaking is working perfectly fine when giving off no warning at all? Up to the point when they point there target of course.

Am I correct to assume you also want this in null space?

Once again you show your limited ability to think.

The point of the comment about Goons is that they have a very strong culture. That culture lets them do things that others cannot or could not do. For example, where is BoB? BoB was basically a cult of personality, and once that personality went AFK BoB and it's successor alliances dried up and blew away in the wind. Goons on the other hand have survived multiple events like the one that destroyed Band of Brothers and with far, far more cohesion. Is it any wonder that Goons can deal with AFK cloakers better than most?

And FWIW Vic has been popping into this thread off and on. I don't always agree with him, but I do respect his ability as a PvPer and his knowledge of the game.

Right, that is my view as well. What is good for the game. I don't AFK cloaky camp, I don't do much ratting/PvE in NS. But despite not actually having a dog in this fight--i.e. I don't have much of an ulterior agenda--I am actually a troll according to mental midgets like Xcom. Go figure.