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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Mag's
Azn Empire
#61 - 2015-01-10 09:52:52 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:


If your toon is logged in, it's interacting with the eve world weather you're at the keyboard or not.

If you want specifics here's a list, from least to most, for the cloaky: a character that is logged in, in space, in a system, on a grid, in a ship, fit with a cloaking device, and cloaking device is currently active, depending on the status of your character, it will interact with one or more of these states to varying degrees simply by being logged in.
We are talking of one thing. Specifically AFK cloaking.

So whilst he is AFK cloaked and you are in the system with him, what mechanic is he using to interact with you?


See above. Read it this time.
I did read it, you dodged the answer with lots of words.

The answer is in fact one word. Hell you can even forget the whole AFK aspect if that's an issue.

So there is a cloaker in your system cloaked up. He's not talking. What mechanic is he using to interact with you? How do you know he is there? What mechanic interacts to tell you that?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#62 - 2015-01-10 10:02:54 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:


If your toon is logged in, it's interacting with the eve world weather you're at the keyboard or not.

If you want specifics here's a list, from least to most, for the cloaky: a character that is logged in, in space, in a system, on a grid, in a ship, fit with a cloaking device, and cloaking device is currently active, depending on the status of your character, it will interact with one or more of these states to varying degrees simply by being logged in.
We are talking of one thing. Specifically AFK cloaking.

So whilst he is AFK cloaked and you are in the system with him, what mechanic is he using to interact with you?


See above. Read it this time.
I did read it, you dodged the answer with lots of words.

The answer is in fact one word. Hell you can even forget the whole AFK aspect if that's an issue.

So there is a cloaker in your system cloaked up. He's not talking. What mechanic is he using to interact with you? How do you know he is there? What mechanic interacts to tell you that?


The biggest one, the mechanic that everyone mentions, every single time they're complaining about afk cloaking, and this is tough, I know, so you need to concentrate, is cloaking. Yes, cloaking. That's the most important one, there are all the other ones I mentioned, no, shh... it's OK, that's right, you're going to be fine. Cloaking is a mechanic. A toon is logged in, in a system, and it's cloaked up. Other players are in that system. Magic happens and voila! Interaction, some where the miracle of life, and things happen between players and it doesn't even require interaction. Wild right?
Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#63 - 2015-01-10 10:12:05 UTC
It's interesting to see how people still haven't figured this out. Changing how cloaks work or discussing some ******** probing mechanics against cloakers doesn't change anything.

The topic has never been "AFK cloaking", because the threat is not the cloaked ship, or the cloaking device, it's the (covert ops) cynosural field generator fitted next to the cloak.

If the AFK cloaker was actually a single ship, even nullbears could occasionally man up and face the threat. However, the cyno changes the threat from manageable to unknown, and as it is, into very much certain death.

The attacker has 100% advantage, they choose whether to engage or not, when to do it and what to field.

Some resourceful bears have scouts in the bridging system, and have watchlisted the pilots, and can therefore bear as much as they like, regardless of the cloaker and his keyboardness status.

Cyno use in direct combat is the mechanic that needs tuning, if we assume that scaredbears are something else than untermensch, and that anyone gives a single **** about their mindless, bot-aspirant playstyle. Which we don't.



Mag's
Azn Empire
#64 - 2015-01-10 10:17:21 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I did read it, you dodged the answer with lots of words.

The answer is in fact one word. Hell you can even forget the whole AFK aspect if that's an issue.

So there is a cloaker in your system cloaked up. He's not talking. What mechanic is he using to interact with you? How do you know he is there? What mechanic interacts to tell you that?


The biggest one, the mechanic that everyone mentions, every single time they're complaining about afk cloaking, and this is tough, I know, so you need to concentrate, is cloaking. Yes, cloaking. That's the most important one, there are all the other ones I mentioned, no, shh... it's OK, that's right, you're going to be fine. Cloaking is a mechanic. A toon is logged in, in a system, and it's cloaked up. Other players are in that system. Magic happens and voila! Interaction, some where the miracle of life, and things happen between players and it doesn't even require interaction. Wild right?
So let me get this straight. You're telling me you know someone is in the system cloaked up, because of the cloak? The cloak which actually hides pilots to a degree, actually tells you he is there?

Oh no that's right, you just dodged it again. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#65 - 2015-01-10 10:44:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Mag's wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I did read it, you dodged the answer with lots of words.

The answer is in fact one word. Hell you can even forget the whole AFK aspect if that's an issue.

So there is a cloaker in your system cloaked up. He's not talking. What mechanic is he using to interact with you? How do you know he is there? What mechanic interacts to tell you that?


The biggest one, the mechanic that everyone mentions, every single time they're complaining about afk cloaking, and this is tough, I know, so you need to concentrate, is cloaking. Yes, cloaking. That's the most important one, there are all the other ones I mentioned, no, shh... it's OK, that's right, you're going to be fine. Cloaking is a mechanic. A toon is logged in, in a system, and it's cloaked up. Other players are in that system. Magic happens and voila! Interaction, some where the miracle of life, and things happen between players and it doesn't even require interaction. Wild right?
So let me get this straight. You're telling me you know someone is in the system cloaked up, because of the cloak? The cloak which actually hides pilots to a degree, actually tells you he is there?

Oh no that's right, you just dodged it again. Lol


No dodging, *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Yes they're cloaked because of the cloak. Yes cloaking is a mechanic. Yes cloaking hides a player 'to a(n infinite) degree.'

I know they're cloaked or not because of the hannibal lector fingertips brushing my hair as he passes by on the carousel, but for everyone else (plebes) there's d-scan, peeeeeeer...obes, the 17 days that toon has been training black ops V in local (local is so great, it really is the best thing about k-space,) and the history of black bass ops drops. You know this though. We all know this. This is this is sparta-level pedantic. You like afk cloaking for some *burp* reason and you'll bend over backwards to defend it, *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

I don't rat or mine in null, I just do baltec1 style twerking and PVP dudes so I don't really care about the disruption, all I really care about is auto-pilot freighter pilots freightering their freight in their freighter automatically without any consequences whatsoever afk in highsec where it is completely safe all the time and there's no unwanted PVPing them ever under any circumstances ever no matter how hard anyone tried to exploit the game mechanics and the skills or tools available to them to bring PVP to such totally invulnerable afk reward garnering tactics- I mean maybe someone could bait them but it's not like there's an instant free tool that someone could check easily, that doesn't really exist, to see if maybe they're baiting I dunno maybe, maybe not, but risk averse at leisure Isk and KB farming no couldn't be that easy and mechanics jeez what is a mechanic how deep does the rabbit hole here go its not clear what the defenition of mechanic is it could be anything you wanted it to be maybe I chose it because it could mean anything I wanted it to because I'm trying to make an argument in a way that I can't possibly lose uunghghhg.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#66 - 2015-01-10 10:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Removed a reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

You know the answer of course. Strange how you want change, but are not willing to look at all the mechanics involved. Maybe you are far too reliant upon a certain mechanic and any talk of it worries you? So instead you wish only to talk of cloaks.

Not a very balanced approach.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#67 - 2015-01-10 11:34:47 UTC
Mag's wrote:

What mechanic are they using to interact with you, whilst they are AFK?


Cloaking. It's in the name. AFK cloaking.

Here's a few question for you, Mag's: I'll answer them for you, because it's funnier this way.

Q:Does placing an afk cloaker in a system have an affect on the players that typically inhabit that system?
A: Of course, people ***** about it on the forums all the time!
Q:If not, why do people complain about it on the forum?
A:What? I just said people whine about it constantly, so much the forum moderator have to play lock-whack-a-mole.
Q:Is affecting a player in game in any way interacting with them?
A: Well I guess, to affect you'd have to interact, it's causality, and Einstein taught gave us the tools to understand that!
Q:How would it be possible to affect a player in game without interacting with them?
A: Aliens.
Q:Is cloaking a mechanic?
A: What is a mechanic really?
Q:Is the quoted question one that you asked?
A: Nope I'm going to ignore that because I'm wrong but I'm not willing to admit it.
Q:Are afk cloakers cloaked while afk?
A: Afk cloakers are cloaked while afk.




Mr Doctor
Sex Machineguns
#68 - 2015-01-10 11:45:49 UTC
Why wouldnt you just add a 1h cycle time to cloaks, maybe 2 for covert and give caps the trait of infinite cycle time. Supers would really be the only ones screwed by a 1h cycle so.....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2015-01-10 12:17:56 UTC
Mr Doctor wrote:
Why wouldnt you just add a 1h cycle time to cloaks, maybe 2 for covert and give caps the trait of infinite cycle time. Supers would really be the only ones screwed by a 1h cycle so.....


This is only aimed at AFK cloakers which brings us back to the fact that an AFK cloaker can literally do nothing.
Mr Doctor
Sex Machineguns
#70 - 2015-01-10 12:25:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mr Doctor wrote:
Why wouldnt you just add a 1h cycle time to cloaks, maybe 2 for covert and give caps the trait of infinite cycle time. Supers would really be the only ones screwed by a 1h cycle so.....


This is only aimed at AFK cloakers

Which is the thread title....
Mag's
Azn Empire
#71 - 2015-01-10 12:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Bullet Therapist wrote:
Mag's wrote:

What mechanic are they using to interact with you, whilst they are AFK?


Cloaking. It's in the name. AFK cloaking.
Wrong again, but we'll get there I'm sure. Big smile

Here let me explain, as you seem to be having issues with a simple concept.

I cloak up with my ship. The cloak interacts with my ship and makes it disappear visually. This means it removes any interaction from the ship and you. You cannot lock me, or I you.

But here is the crux, you obviously know I'm there. How is that possible?
What mechanic is showing you, that I'm in the system? The one that interacts with you and gives you that intel. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#72 - 2015-01-10 12:33:07 UTC
Mag's wrote:

But here is the crux, you obviously know I'm there. Now read carefully, this is where it gets hard and you lose focus. What mechanic is showing you, that I'm in the system? The one that interacts with you and gives you that intel. Blink


Oh, oh, I know! *raises hand*

Pick me, pick me!

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2015-01-10 12:35:01 UTC
Mr Doctor wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mr Doctor wrote:
Why wouldnt you just add a 1h cycle time to cloaks, maybe 2 for covert and give caps the trait of infinite cycle time. Supers would really be the only ones screwed by a 1h cycle so.....


This is only aimed at AFK cloakers

Which is the thread title....


So why do you want to nerf something that cant do anything?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#74 - 2015-01-10 12:35:42 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mag's wrote:

But here is the crux, you obviously know I'm there. Now read carefully, this is where it gets hard and you lose focus. What mechanic is showing you, that I'm in the system? The one that interacts with you and gives you that intel. Blink


Oh, oh, I know! *raises hand*

Pick me, pick me!
*Points at Mr Kaarous Aldurald.*

"Yes Kaarous, what is the answer please?"

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#75 - 2015-01-10 12:37:57 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mag's wrote:

But here is the crux, you obviously know I'm there. Now read carefully, this is where it gets hard and you lose focus. What mechanic is showing you, that I'm in the system? The one that interacts with you and gives you that intel. Blink


Oh, oh, I know! *raises hand*

Pick me, pick me!
*Points at Mr Kaarous Aldurald.*

"Yes Kaarous, what is the answer please?"


It is local chat?

And, for extra credit, is it local chat in conjunction with the ability to set players blue and therefore immediately identify any and all potential threats via their lack of being blue?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#76 - 2015-01-10 12:40:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mag's wrote:

But here is the crux, you obviously know I'm there. Now read carefully, this is where it gets hard and you lose focus. What mechanic is showing you, that I'm in the system? The one that interacts with you and gives you that intel. Blink


Oh, oh, I know! *raises hand*

Pick me, pick me!
*Points at Mr Kaarous Aldurald.*

"Yes Kaarous, what is the answer please?"


It is local chat?

And, for extra credit, is it local chat in conjunction with the ability to set players blue and therefore immediately identify any and all potential threats via their lack of being blue?
A star, for you Sir. (Plus a space like)

Now isn't it a little odd that those asking for cloaking nerfs, ignore the main issue? One would think balance would involve all the mechanics and change them together, to reach the best outcome.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#77 - 2015-01-10 12:41:53 UTC
Mag's wrote:


Now isn't it a little odd that those asking for cloaking nerfs, ignore the main issue? One would think balance would involve all the mechanics and change them together, to reach the best outcome.


BUT MAH RATTIN
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#78 - 2015-01-10 12:43:23 UTC
Mag's wrote:
A star for you Sir.

Now isn't it a little odd that those asking for cloaking nerfs, ignore the main issue? One would think balance would involve all the mechanics and change them together, to reach the best outcome.


One would think that. But I believe that the goal of some here is not, in fact, actual game balance.

Instead, it seems that their goal is to remove any uncertainty from their own activities, thereby drastically buffing their own playstyles.

One could conclude that to be rather selfish.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#79 - 2015-01-10 12:46:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mag's wrote:
A star for you Sir.

Now isn't it a little odd that those asking for cloaking nerfs, ignore the main issue? One would think balance would involve all the mechanics and change them together, to reach the best outcome.


One would think that. But I believe that the goal of some here is not, in fact, actual game balance.

Instead, it seems that their goal is to remove any uncertainty from their own activities, thereby drastically buffing their own playstyles.

One could conclude that to be rather selfish.
Yes I see your point and I think you may be right.
Local is a rather powerful intel tool and it seems some do not wish to part with it.

Instant intel on a plate sir? Why yes, thank you very much.
baltec1 wrote:


BUT MAH RATTIN
Damn right. For the love of the children, can we not think about the ISK per hour please?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Ben Ishikela
#80 - 2015-01-10 12:50:07 UTC
Mr Doctor wrote:
Why wouldnt you just add a 1h cycle time to cloaks, maybe 2 for covert and give caps the trait of infinite cycle time. Supers would really be the only ones screwed by a 1h cycle so.....

^that. and no automatic reactivation.
and to be reliable against bots, add a AntiBotCapture that needs to be completed every hour or Cloak fails.
something like that.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.