These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#7861 - 2016-12-03 09:50:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jerghul wrote:
Human error is a huge factor in pvp kills. An untimely biobreak will destroy the best laid plans of mice and men.

FOR AS LONG AS THE MICE AND MEN ARE UNDOCKED.

Again, its a linear thing. The more ships undocked and in space, the more ships will die as the result of human error.

I was using a 3% rule earlier. And arbitrary number borrowed from industrial QA standards. Most raters will be aligned and watching local. And 3% will not be watching local and not be aligned.

The number of ships that 3% represents depends on the number of ships in space.


Thats rubbish and you know it. Gifting 100% safety to ratters is by far the worst thing you can do short of installing concord in null.


No it is not, and you fail again for not understanding that some people are very good and able to focus and others cannot and get complacent which is the point I kept making that the more people that operate and are in space the more likely that roamers will get kills.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7862 - 2016-12-03 11:27:32 UTC
Everyone makes mistakes. Careful pilots might screw up 1% of the time. Careless pilots might screw up 10% of the time. New pilots might screw up 100% of the time.

Every encounter in null-sec is based on at least one of the parties having made a mistake.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#7863 - 2016-12-03 11:54:50 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Everyone makes mistakes. Careful pilots might screw up 1% of the time. Careless pilots might screw up 10% of the time. New pilots might screw up 100% of the time.

Every encounter in null-sec is based on at least one of the parties having made a mistake.


I agree, I have seen it happen again and again, even people like me make mistakes, also as I have pointed out in this thread there are periods of vulnerability too. And as I have pointed out again and again it has been made easier to catch people with interceptors that warp fast and are immune to bubbles.

And another thing I would like to see, is when the local in sov null sec is supplied by an OA which can be attacked and removed and is something that people who want kills can do, is that CCP also have a new ship module that impedes the recognition signal and delays local and this modules compromises fitting, so this impact on local reporting is not free of cost.

The OA only supplies local to its own corp or own alliance members, if the attacker wants local they have to set one up themselves. This data cannot be free to attackers from the defenders own OA, it does not make sense to do that and people who want that free intel cannot sprout forth about free intel supplied by local without being red faced.

Once AFK cloaky camping can be disrupted in whatever way CCP decide to do it I will head back to 0.0, and I will be happy to have local by putting up OA's where I am hunting. I will be putting my money where my mouth is...

I will regret the loss of the safety of the cloak, but if thise removes this lame AFK play then I will accept it.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7864 - 2016-12-03 13:49:59 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


No it is not


Yes it is. We cannot rely upon people falling asleep to be the only weakness, we need a counter and AFK cloaking is the only one we have.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#7865 - 2016-12-03 13:52:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


No it is not


Yes it is. We cannot rely upon people falling asleep to be the only weakness, we need a counter and AFK cloaking is the only one we have.


Nope when local is a OA you can blow it up!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7866 - 2016-12-03 14:00:21 UTC
Afk cloaky campers also rely on people making mistakes. Its just that afk cloaky campers wait with 0 effort and while waiting lay waste to activity in huge parts of the EvE ecosystem. It really does need to be fixed as soon as possible.

The counter to people making mistakes is to be ATK and in hostile space.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7867 - 2016-12-03 14:05:56 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


No it is not


Yes it is. We cannot rely upon people falling asleep to be the only weakness, we need a counter and AFK cloaking is the only one we have.


Nope when local is a OA you can blow it up!


With an invasion fleet, roaming gangs and solo ships cannot do this

Equally, the damn thing will pick you up as you enter the system so you cant get the drop on ratters no matter what you do. Even if a solo bomber can kill it and even if there is no reinforcement timer you will be detected and reported which means you catch nothing.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#7868 - 2016-12-03 14:12:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


No it is not


Yes it is. We cannot rely upon people falling asleep to be the only weakness, we need a counter and AFK cloaking is the only one we have.


Nope when local is a OA you can blow it up!


With an invasion fleet, roaming gangs and solo ships cannot do this

Equally, the damn thing will pick you up as you enter the system so you cant get the drop on ratters no matter what you do. Even if a solo bomber can kill it and even if there is no reinforcement timer you will be detected and reported which means you catch nothing.



Get more friends, Eve is a game played with friends is it not? But to answer your question it all depends on how strong CCP make it, I hope it is not some mammoth thing that requires 100 Supers.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7869 - 2016-12-03 14:13:45 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Afk cloaky campers also rely on people making mistakes.


No they rely upon people needing to use their space for ADMs and time. They are the only thing that can inject risk into null sov ratting and mining as roaming gangs are detected long before they get close to a ratting hub.


Jerghul wrote:

Its just that afk cloaky campers wait with 0 effort


When did having to camp a system for several days/weeks become 0 effort?

Want to know what is 0 effort? Intel systems that use local chat that gives free, instant intel.

Jerghul wrote:

and while waiting lay waste to activity in huge parts of the EvE ecosystem.


Care to point out where this is happening? Systms rely upon people activly ratting and mining in them so it should be easy to point out the "huge parts" of null sov that are being laid waste to by a single ship that cannot move, cannot target, cannot shoot and has nobody at the controls.
Jerghul wrote:

The counter to people making mistakes is to be ATK and in hostile space.



That doesn't counter local which is what AFK cloaking does.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7870 - 2016-12-03 14:17:31 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Get more friends, Eve is a game played with friends is it not? But to answer your question it all depends on how strong CCP make it, I hope it is not some mammoth thing that requires 100 Supers.


I will be out of reach for every small gang/solo hunter. It will also detect anything hostile before you can kill it. Hell, killing it will also alert the defenders to an incoming threat so you will still get no kills.

But you know this, you want ratters to have perfect safety because you hate pvp and do your best to reduce it in every area you possibly can.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#7871 - 2016-12-03 15:52:08 UTC
With AFK-cloaking laying waste to activity in huge parts of space, how is it possible that the bounty-payouts are so high that even CCP is worried?

Wormholer for life.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#7872 - 2016-12-03 16:28:49 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
With AFK-cloaking laying waste to activity in huge parts of space, how is it possible that the bounty-payouts are so high that even CCP is worried?


Maybe the bounties are too high or too many are spawning, and people have perfected methods to run them quickly, such as smart bombing BS's in certain anomalies based on the spawn pattern. So where is this excessive ratting happening at this point? Details matter you know...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7873 - 2016-12-03 17:10:09 UTC
Dracvlad
Details do indeed matter :-).

Its a blue doughnut thing. Large ratting fleets targetting individual systems with cap back up. Its a problem best fixed by specifically targetting the industrial scale technique used.

The specific systems and total npc kills can be seen on dotlan statistics.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#7874 - 2016-12-03 17:32:14 UTC
So details matter when it suits your narrative, but they aren't important when it comes to nerfing cloaks? Got it. Btw, it's starting to be difficult to see where one ass ends and another begins...

Wormholer for life.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#7875 - 2016-12-03 17:49:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Wander Prian wrote:
So details matter when it suits your narrative, but they aren't important when it comes to nerfing cloaks? Got it. Btw, it's starting to be difficult to see where one ass ends and another begins...


Yes but when you say details matter it is normally a good idea to explain the details, I was suggesting that you take your tender little self and analyse the ratting data and work out where this is happening and then why, then look at places that have lower ratting rates and more kills, it is not difficult to work out, then one can see a pattern and understand why and what this means.

That you did not do this means that your throw away line is worth horse shite because the details of why this is happening is down to a number of things, such as what I replied to and of course location, if that location clue does not help your grey matter to stir a bit then nothing will.

Nerfing cloaks will make no real difference to this at all, because a lot of the excessive ratting is not actually affected by AFK cloaking due to being renters in a very far away location. Anyway as you are a WH player I don't expect you to understand any of that.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7876 - 2016-12-03 18:11:54 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
So details matter when it suits your narrative, but they aren't important when it comes to nerfing cloaks? Got it. Btw, it's starting to be difficult to see where one ass ends and another begins...


Yes but when you say details matter it is normally a good idea to explain the details, I was suggesting that you take your tender little self and analyse the ratting data and work out where this is happening and then why, then look at places that have lower ratting rates and more kills, it is not difficult to work out, then one can see a pattern and understand why and what this means.

That you did not do this means that your throw away line is worth horse shite because the details of why this is happening is down to a number of things, such as what I replied to and of course location, if that location clue does not help your grey matter to stir a bit then nothing will.

Nerfing cloaks will make no real difference to this at all, because a lot of the excessive ratting is not actually affected by AFK cloaking due to being renters in a very far away location. Anyway as you are a WH player I don't expect you to understand any of that.


Delve is the biggest injector of minerals in the game now, it is also home to goons who use local based intel systems to spot anything entering their space. Removing AFK cloaking means you wipe out the only counter to their intel system.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#7877 - 2016-12-03 18:17:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
So details matter when it suits your narrative, but they aren't important when it comes to nerfing cloaks? Got it. Btw, it's starting to be difficult to see where one ass ends and another begins...


Yes but when you say details matter it is normally a good idea to explain the details, I was suggesting that you take your tender little self and analyse the ratting data and work out where this is happening and then why, then look at places that have lower ratting rates and more kills, it is not difficult to work out, then one can see a pattern and understand why and what this means.

That you did not do this means that your throw away line is worth horse shite because the details of why this is happening is down to a number of things, such as what I replied to and of course location, if that location clue does not help your grey matter to stir a bit then nothing will.

Nerfing cloaks will make no real difference to this at all, because a lot of the excessive ratting is not actually affected by AFK cloaking due to being renters in a very far away location. Anyway as you are a WH player I don't expect you to understand any of that.


Delve is the biggest injector of minerals in the game now, it is also home to goons who use local based intel systems to spot anything entering their space. Removing AFK cloaking means you wipe out the only counter to their intel system.


Go take their space...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Xcom
Eclipse Strike Unit
Jump On Contact..
#7878 - 2016-12-04 03:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Xcom
LOL rekt

baltec1 just wants spontaneous death to ratters, as if it was a great solution to riskless farming. But noone is stupid enough to rat with AFK cloakers so they use the next system over tactic. Who in there right mind thinks its a good game mechanic to have invisible attackers coming out of cloak right on top of you and blapping you. Even worse for the active roaming gang tactics are a waste of effort because you can put in a tenth the effort to catch idiots who rat or farm with a cloaky in system.

Nothing about AFK cloaking is good for anything to anyone. It reduces activity in a very targeted system. It makes the game a chore and really s**ty when you have try hards camping. PvPers activity is reduced because system renters can earn income to support there pvp activity. Content is reduced from the game in all aspects. Its a giant hole that leeks game content for anyone involved, even for the AFK cloakers themselfs. What kind of mindset is needed to tryhard for a kill, is that kind of pvp even constructive and thrilling? Do they have fun logging for all those hours to just get one kill?

If AFK cloaking disappeared you could still log out in the targeted system then catch people in belts getting around the so called "intel network" by logging in. But the same idiots who want AFK cloaking also want there incursions to enemy space risk free. The problem is logging out with safety after stirring up the hornets nest so they want a way to get around that with cloaks.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7879 - 2016-12-04 05:26:49 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
So details matter when it suits your narrative, but they aren't important when it comes to nerfing cloaks? Got it. Btw, it's starting to be difficult to see where one ass ends and another begins...


Yes but when you say details matter it is normally a good idea to explain the details, I was suggesting that you take your tender little self and analyse the ratting data and work out where this is happening and then why, then look at places that have lower ratting rates and more kills, it is not difficult to work out, then one can see a pattern and understand why and what this means.

That you did not do this means that your throw away line is worth horse shite because the details of why this is happening is down to a number of things, such as what I replied to and of course location, if that location clue does not help your grey matter to stir a bit then nothing will.

Nerfing cloaks will make no real difference to this at all, because a lot of the excessive ratting is not actually affected by AFK cloaking due to being renters in a very far away location. Anyway as you are a WH player I don't expect you to understand any of that.


Delve is the biggest injector of minerals in the game now, it is also home to goons who use local based intel systems to spot anything entering their space. Removing AFK cloaking means you wipe out the only counter to their intel system.


Go take their space...


And how do you go about doing that as a solo player?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7880 - 2016-12-04 05:29:28 UTC
Xcom wrote:
LOL rekt

baltec1 just wants spontaneous death to ratters, as if it was a great solution to riskless farming. But noone is stupid enough to rat with AFK cloakers so they use the next system over tactic. Who in there right mind thinks its a good game mechanic to have invisible attackers coming out of cloak right on top of you and blapping you. Even worse for the active roaming gang tactics are a waste of effort because you can put in a tenth the effort to catch idiots who rat or farm with a cloaky in system.

Nothing about AFK cloaking is good for anything to anyone. It reduces activity in a very targeted system. It makes the game a chore and really s**ty when you have try hards camping. PvPers activity is reduced because system renters can earn income to support there pvp activity. Content is reduced from the game in all aspects. Its a giant hole that leeks game content for anyone involved, even for the AFK cloakers themselfs. What kind of mindset is needed to tryhard for a kill, is that kind of pvp even constructive and thrilling? Do they have fun logging for all those hours to just get one kill?

If AFK cloaking disappeared you could still log out in the targeted system then catch people in belts getting around the so called "intel network" by logging in. But the same idiots who want AFK cloaking also want there incursions to enemy space risk free. The problem is logging out with safety after stirring up the hornets nest so they want a way to get around that with cloaks.


The second you log in they warp off because you show up in local before you finish loading into the system.