Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Value is generated when a player logs in and spends time in EvE.

@ Teckos Pech Your wall of multi posting truly shows your intellect. You unknowingly answered your own questions when asking if cloaked ships generated any income. They didn't generate ISK but they did generate value. You seam to have gotten lost with narrow-minded responses trolling this thread having gotten that particular response to that exact question get answered over and over to you. Just to make a fool out of you from me as well I'll lead you along like a little kid through first principles.

The dilemma of cloaking generates value for one side of the party while not for the other. This is the act of lopsided value generation and is the imbalance of cloaks. Cloaks generate opportunity of engagement while the opponent can not do the same as the stalemate can only be broken from one side. This was prevented with the points above with your ignorant response of "Gathering intel with a cloak is cloaks working as intended." not even understanding the main underlying imbalance. Being forced to move is a direct cause and effect of value ceasing to exist in that particular space. This type of act generates less value for all sides and is clear evidence of bad game design. A well balanced feature would generate player attention and have people gather around a conflict and not have to move away from it. If cloaks force people to move it means its not a good feature, quite the opposite.

And for the 100th of time. This is a cloaky thread and not a local thread.

AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

@ Teckos Pech Your wall of multi posting truly shows your intellect. You unknowingly answered your own questions when asking if cloaked ships generated any income. They didn't generate ISK but they did generate value. You seam to have gotten lost with narrow-minded responses trolling this thread having gotten that particular response to that exact question get answered over and over to you. Just to make a fool out of you from me as well I'll lead you along like a little kid through first principles.

Value is generated when a player logs in and spends time in EvE. That time can be direct ISK generation (ratting/mission running for example) or production that will lead to ISK income (mining/production). Then there are other forms of value generation such as pvp where players engage in combat. First principle of combat is conflict that drives the engagement. You have to have an opponent to preform combat. Your opponent will prevent you from preforming some actions with some moves while in also becoming vulnerable with other actions when either forced or by choice done other moves. All of this drives value in EvE online, the game we play. Without value generation actions would automatically cease to exist as players would stop playing. Not all value needs to be in ISK directly.

The dilemma of cloaking generates value for one side of the party while not for the other. This is the act of lopsided value generation and is the imbalance of cloaks. Cloaks generate opportunity of engagement while the opponent can not do the same as the stalemate can only be broken from one side. This was prevented with the points above with your ignorant response of "Gathering intel with a cloak is cloaks working as intended." not even understanding the main underlying imbalance. Being forced to move is a direct cause and effect of value ceasing to exist in that particular space. This type of act generates less value for all sides and is clear evidence of bad game design. A well balanced feature would generate player attention and have people gather around a conflict and not have to move away from it. If cloaks force people to move it means its not a good feature, quite the opposite.

And for the 100th of time. This is a cloaky thread and not a local thread. Even if its in need of alteration it will be done and discussed in a thread of its own. No one is a hypocrite when they ask to stop the derailment of the discussion to start talking about other broken features or justify the role of cloaks because of n number of reasons. If it wasn't for local there would be stations or any other number of random bullshit conjured to derail the main topic or justify its function. Only discussing cloaking on its own can you justify its actual intended use.

With your own admission you have clearly shown that value is removed from the system where AFK cloaking tactics are used. Its also evident that you can bring N number of ships to protect any activity in said system to the point where income division amongst players compares to empire, a safer space to preform same actions. But as a default the aggressor with the advantage of scouting can just bring N + 1 ships and win the battle in direct favor of there outcome. Local and AFK cloaking in fact ruins the game for anyone involved. Anyone seeing this should be appalled by its impact. It just confuses me to see people like you defend it.

Why do you even defend this broken mechanic?

This is not your thread dude, though you treat it as if you are some sort of guardian of HTFU thought. Yes I was aware of your OA approach and the difference for me was that I did not want to impact the cloaks which is why I went for the AFK flag idea via an OA. The simple fact is that I am prepared to accept some sort of temporary de-cloaking which takes effort and has a cost, I don't want an I win button on this (I hope the use of 'I win' annoys you further.)

You troll this thread but that does not mean your viewpoint as detailed above does not have merit, I just wanted to protect casual players who get called away due to RL and my focus was on the smaller groups or solo players that operate often in very hostile space and have a gameplay that is completely ignored by CCP. But you are too up yourself to notice that.

Not if you shoot the OA that gives local when that is implemented, then you will simply be able to remove local rather than moan about it.

Get friends mate, if CCP are sensible they will make it so whenever it is active it can be shot and destroyed.

To a lesser degree it also is an issue in WS. There are instances of players using it to camp mining operations and getting off cheep kills. Its just harder to prove.

But the cloaking module needs a general nerf, its not very entertaining to have bunch of cloaked pilots engaging in combat or avoiding it.

Except that wouldn't work the way you want it to (assuming you wanted less safety for the alleged 'nullbears') :

the sov holder, henceforth known as "the bear", would have this structure up and would therefore have local the way they do now, PLUS cloak hunting capabilities.

The cloaky camper on the other hand, will not have this structure and would therefore have NO local at all.


The result?

The AFK cloaker is rendered vulnerable; perfect local chat intel still exists protecting the space from roaming gang, and what have you got? Bubkes!


If that is what you wanted, you should have just upvoted Mike Voidstar because you've just created the perfect ISK printer. Congratulations, I guess?