Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I could give two ***** if I get reported in intel or local. Actually I like it. Cause then I get this itch to cloak up and go watch a movie, occasionally pop back in to check dscan for PvE ships, on the off chance they grew a set and decided to pull em out.

Did you know that one cloaky ass-hat can completely shut down an entire system just by being in local? And often shut down an entire pocket because well, can't take out your battleships or carriers for 1-2 jumps, if there is a potential hot-drop-oclock guy pissin' about.

If local was gone, two things would happen. First off, I'd fly through, see your guys, drop in to say hi (maybe with friends), and then be gone one way or the other.

But as it is I see people in local AND see ships that are obviously carebearing, and I have a compelling reason to stay so long as local shows me people are in the system. If your guys aren't making money because of a potential outcome, they get unhappy, and log for the day (makin your corp/alliance less money, and lowering indexes) or some just f'k off to high sec or leave corp, etc.

I actually did post that maybe there should be some form of deployable that could help the sov holders (or other people that plan to stick around) see if people are coming in. It'd be something shootable, but then you'd know for sure, right?


Also an FYI - I don't have local actually *up* even in kspace. I might glance at it, but the only tool I care about is my dscanner. Most of the time people see neut/red and go dock up anyways. The fact that blops can even happen is so scary that most of kspace quakes any time a ship goes through.

You must not have been in 0.0 for long, or your corp/alliance is horrible and doesn't have control of their space. I have watched and even talked to people that semi-afk mine in nullsec all day. I used to be in a corp that had a standing fleet up, so the miners literally could AFK mine so long as they listened for a ping on TS. And they flew brick tanked boats.

Maybe we should get together in LS/NS with a blops group, and say hi to them next time :D Content for us, learning experience for them?

You seam a bit lost, this is not a fix it all kind of thread. Don't try and derail it with local/station/kitchen sink bullshit. This is a cloak balancing thread. Go open a new thread and stop derailing this one.

Just because local and citadels are not balanced in your point of view doesn't mean they are directly connected to cloaking, they will more then likely not be fixed in conjunction with the other.

You still haven't explained how an AFK cloaker makes ISK.

I think you can't and you simply cannot admit you were wrong.

And I'll push it even further, not only do you not make ISK, AFK cloaking comes with a cost. That cost is the foregone ISK making opportunities--i.e. opportunity cost.

In other words, you could not be more wrong on this point.

Right over your head apparently. AFK cloaked pilots don't do anything. They are AFK and cloaked, by definition they are powerless aside from scaring people via local. That is, literally, all they can do.

So no AFK cloaker has ever come near you. An ATK cloaker...sure, but not AFK.

Anyone using the term "I win button" should be ignored as a complete fool.

I agree. I do think that there should be ways to deal with perma cloaked afk people, even though in the process I'd lose my afk alt cloaky eyes. But since I left kspace, and went to wspace, I find that I don't miss local one bit.

The lack of local is actually helpful. I pay attention more, I'm more invested in the time that I'm playing the game.

But... I do also agree that it feels like we're doing the same thing I used to complain about, derailing the thread a bit.

There does need to be some way to 'break' a cloak, even if its a temporary thing. The only answer I like so far is the one I came up with a few years back with a cloak detection/disruption probe, and the only other decent post was about a timer on cloaking modules, or fuel, but both of those options make cloaking a PITA and would require every cloak-able ship to get a storage buff or something, especially covops ships that are paper thin and designed to stay cloaked until they find a target.

But even my cloak breaking probe idea is fairly messed up when I figure how quickly I've learned to scan down ships. Combat scanning if anything like cloak scanning would be too easy, and just seeing a red in local would be instant anti-cloaking probes deployment.

So really the AFKloak is not really able to be dealt with unless local goes away.

@ Teckos Pech Your wall of multi posting truly shows your intellect. You unknowingly answered your own questions when asking if cloaked ships generated any income. They didn't generate ISK but they did generate value. You seam to have gotten lost with narrow-minded responses trolling this thread having gotten that particular response to that exact question get answered over and over to you. Just to make a fool out of you from me as well I'll lead you along like a little kid through first principles.

Value is generated when a player logs in and spends time in EvE. That time can be direct ISK generation (ratting/mission running for example) or production that will lead to ISK income (mining/production). Then there are other forms of value generation such as pvp where players engage in combat. First principle of combat is conflict that drives the engagement. You have to have an opponent to preform combat. Your opponent will prevent you from preforming some actions with some moves while in also becoming vulnerable with other actions when either forced or by choice done other moves. All of this drives value in EvE online, the game we play. Without value generation actions would automatically cease to exist as players would stop playing. Not all value needs to be in ISK directly.

The dilemma of cloaking generates value for one side of the party while not for the other. This is the act of lopsided value generation and is the imbalance of cloaks. Cloaks generate opportunity of engagement while the opponent can not do the same as the stalemate can only be broken from one side. This was prevented with the points above with your ignorant response of "Gathering intel with a cloak is cloaks working as intended." not even understanding the main underlying imbalance. Being forced to move is a direct cause and effect of value ceasing to exist in that particular space. This type of act generates less value for all sides and is clear evidence of bad game design. A well balanced feature would generate player attention and have people gather around a conflict and not have to move away from it. If cloaks force people to move it means its not a good feature, quite the opposite.

And for the 100th of time. This is a cloaky thread and not a local thread. Even if its in need of alteration it will be done and discussed in a thread of its own. No one is a hypocrite when they ask to stop the derailment of the discussion to start talking about other broken features or justify the role of cloaks because of n number of reasons. If it wasn't for local there would be stations or any other number of random bullshit conjured to derail the main topic or justify its function. Only discussing cloaking on its own can you justify its actual intended use.

AFK cloaking is only complained about in sov null. The only area I haven't personally lived in is NPC null, so I can't talk about that, but AFK cloaking is a non issue in HS, LS and WHs.