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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6581 - 2016-09-06 06:49:36 UTC
vipeer wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

People move Supers and Titans, you would make it too easy to hunt them...


I agree with that, and thats why it was suggested earlier that Supers + Titans and maybe even Capitals would be immune to cloak probing. Sure, use a Titan for AFK cloaking and hotdropping if you want ;)


First off to scan a cloaked ship you'd have to anchor an observatory array. You'd have to fit it with the module that allows you to scan for cloaked ships in system. And said cloaked ship would have to be in system for X amount of time before you can start scanning.

In other words you'd need to fulfill 4 criteria before you could scan down a super capital moving through a system.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6582 - 2016-09-06 06:51:19 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


You are always so upset, you need to calm down.

Simple, RL can get in the way and you cannot always control your ability to get back, so with your suggestion I would have to plan out a play time where I have no possibility of interruptions, and that is very difficult to do for many people So screwing casual players even more.

The game balance was aimed at Super and Titan movement, do keep up, and structures have a cost as already explained to youin this thread.


Oh...so, we balance the game on the RL issues people have. Roll

And yes, I know you were saying game balance was in relation to super capitals you have yet to explain the problem though.


Well RL is a factor in playing games, whether you like it or not.

Pretty obvious one actually...


Sure it is a factor, but not one that CCP can reasonably take into account when doing game balance. Seriously, is CCP going to phone me up and find out what RL issues might impact my game play? And exactly how do they verify whatever I tell them?

No, this is just stupid.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6583 - 2016-09-06 06:53:15 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
vipeer wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

People move Supers and Titans, you would make it too easy to hunt them...


I agree with that, and thats why it was suggested earlier that Supers + Titans and maybe even Capitals would be immune to cloak probing. Sure, use a Titan for AFK cloaking and hotdropping if you want ;)


First off to scan a cloaked ship you'd have to anchor an observatory array. You'd have to fit it with the module that allows you to scan for cloaked ships in system. And said cloaked ship would have to be in system for X amount of time before you can start scanning.

In other words you'd need to fulfill 4 criteria before you could scan down a super capital moving through a system.


Actually fair point that one, but certain choke points will have them, could be fun however.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6584 - 2016-09-06 06:54:12 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


You are always so upset, you need to calm down.

Simple, RL can get in the way and you cannot always control your ability to get back, so with your suggestion I would have to plan out a play time where I have no possibility of interruptions, and that is very difficult to do for many people So screwing casual players even more.

The game balance was aimed at Super and Titan movement, do keep up, and structures have a cost as already explained to youin this thread.


Oh...so, we balance the game on the RL issues people have. Roll

And yes, I know you were saying game balance was in relation to super capitals you have yet to explain the problem though.


Well RL is a factor in playing games, whether you like it or not.

Pretty obvious one actually...


Sure it is a factor, but not one that CCP can reasonably take into account when doing game balance. Seriously, is CCP going to phone me up and find out what RL issues might impact my game play? And exactly how do they verify whatever I tell them?

No, this is just stupid.


The issue is taht people might look at the risk and say, nah can't be certain the wife won't find something for me to do and go play a game which he can just put on pause. That is a lose for Eve.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6585 - 2016-09-06 07:05:54 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


The issue is taht people might look at the risk and say, nah can't be certain the wife won't find something for me to do and go play a game which he can just put on pause. That is a lose for Eve.


Oh FFS. Roll

That is your objection? You might get wife aggro? Yeah, I'm sure that is high on CCP's list of issue when discussing game balance.

And how exactly does this relate to super capitals and cloaks?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6586 - 2016-09-06 07:06:44 UTC
BTW, what do I get if my dog has osteosarcoma?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6587 - 2016-09-06 07:15:04 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


The issue is taht people might look at the risk and say, nah can't be certain the wife won't find something for me to do and go play a game which he can just put on pause. That is a lose for Eve.


Oh FFS. Roll

That is your objection? You might get wife aggro? Yeah, I'm sure that is high on CCP's list of issue when discussing game balance.

And how exactly does this relate to super capitals and cloaks?


Eve is an aging player base with kids, wives and dogs etc., getting clear playing time can be an issue, if you cannot be sure then you might decide not to do some things and play another game. Pretty obvious stuff for anyone who has a wife a girlfriend, kids etc. Currently the cloak enables people to just cloak up and no issue, but with your suggestion that will not be an option if people have set this up. Just another reason not to play or not to undock, sounds good for a game with people not logging in....

Whatever relationship you want to come up with to score points.... Roll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6588 - 2016-09-06 07:23:03 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


The issue is taht people might look at the risk and say, nah can't be certain the wife won't find something for me to do and go play a game which he can just put on pause. That is a lose for Eve.


Oh FFS. Roll

That is your objection? You might get wife aggro? Yeah, I'm sure that is high on CCP's list of issue when discussing game balance.

And how exactly does this relate to super capitals and cloaks?


Eve is an aging player base with kids, wives and dogs etc., getting clear playing time can be an issue, if you cannot be sure then you might decide not to do some things and play another game. Pretty obvious stuff for anyone who has a wife a girlfriend, kids etc. Currently the cloak enables people to just cloak up and no issue, but with your suggestion that will not be an option if people have set this up. Just another reason not to play or not to undock, sounds good for a game with people not logging in....

Whatever relationship you want to come up with to score points.... Roll


So what do I get if my dog has osteosarcoma? Can I talk to the Eve Devs about this and how they can do something for me?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6589 - 2016-09-06 07:28:58 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


The issue is taht people might look at the risk and say, nah can't be certain the wife won't find something for me to do and go play a game which he can just put on pause. That is a lose for Eve.


Oh FFS. Roll

That is your objection? You might get wife aggro? Yeah, I'm sure that is high on CCP's list of issue when discussing game balance.

And how exactly does this relate to super capitals and cloaks?


Eve is an aging player base with kids, wives and dogs etc., getting clear playing time can be an issue, if you cannot be sure then you might decide not to do some things and play another game. Pretty obvious stuff for anyone who has a wife a girlfriend, kids etc. Currently the cloak enables people to just cloak up and no issue, but with your suggestion that will not be an option if people have set this up. Just another reason not to play or not to undock, sounds good for a game with people not logging in....

Whatever relationship you want to come up with to score points.... Roll


So what do I get if my dog has osteosarcoma? Can I talk to the Eve Devs about this and how they can do something for me?


You are obviously thinking that you are making some sort of valid point, please continue, I am just laughing at it, I feel sorry for the dog however and hope you have seen a vet.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6590 - 2016-09-06 07:47:55 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


The issue is taht people might look at the risk and say, nah can't be certain the wife won't find something for me to do and go play a game which he can just put on pause. That is a lose for Eve.


Oh FFS. Roll

That is your objection? You might get wife aggro? Yeah, I'm sure that is high on CCP's list of issue when discussing game balance.

And how exactly does this relate to super capitals and cloaks?


Eve is an aging player base with kids, wives and dogs etc., getting clear playing time can be an issue, if you cannot be sure then you might decide not to do some things and play another game. Pretty obvious stuff for anyone who has a wife a girlfriend, kids etc. Currently the cloak enables people to just cloak up and no issue, but with your suggestion that will not be an option if people have set this up. Just another reason not to play or not to undock, sounds good for a game with people not logging in....

Whatever relationship you want to come up with to score points.... Roll


So what do I get if my dog has osteosarcoma? Can I talk to the Eve Devs about this and how they can do something for me?


You are obviously thinking that you are making some sort of valid point, please continue, I am just laughing at it, I feel sorry for the dog however and hope you have seen a vet.


My point is that CCP cannot take into account people's RL issues aside from, at best, the average....which means that pretty much 100% of the players are going to find that whatever CCP does will in some way be too little or too much.

Everyone has **** going on in their lives. I have a dog that is dying of bone cancer among other problems. I'm not about to stand here and demand that CCP structure their game balance around me or anyone else because they can't.

Yes, the average Eve player is older, and the Eve player base has aged. Should that be a factor in their game balance discussions? Maybe, but again...on average which won't mean much of anything to any player or players you pick at random because it is highly unlikely any player you pick will be the average.

So go on and keep laughing, it just proves what a fool you are.

And I still see how this has **** all to do with AFK cloaking, cloaks or super capitals...although it would be nice of you to explain the problem with super capitals....not that I'll expect you too. In fact, I expect another attempt to derail the thread. Maybe you'll bring up changing diapers.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6591 - 2016-09-06 08:02:37 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
My point is that CCP cannot take into account people's RL issues aside from, at best, the average....which means that pretty much 100% of the players are going to find that whatever CCP does will in some way be too little or too much.

Everyone has **** going on in their lives. I have a dog that is dying of bone cancer among other problems. I'm not about to stand here and demand that CCP structure their game balance around me or anyone else because they can't.

Yes, the average Eve player is older, and the Eve player base has aged. Should that be a factor in their game balance discussions? Maybe, but again...on average which won't mean much of anything to any player or players you pick at random because it is highly unlikely any player you pick will be the average.

So go on and keep laughing, it just proves what a fool you are.

And I still see how this has **** all to do with AFK cloaking, cloaks or super capitals...although it would be nice of you to explain the problem with super capitals....not that I'll expect you too. In fact, I expect another attempt to derail the thread. Maybe you'll bring up changing diapers.


You attempt at trolling just proves what a fool you are and I was not the one who suddenly declared that their dog had cancer and CCP should adjust around that using ridicule. Which is why I am laughing at you, sad troll attempt is still a sad troll attempt...

Cloaking is one way of dealing with RL getting in the way of the game based on the log off mechanics and timers and if you are being hunted, if you are not going to be able to get safe and you are likely to get interruptions then you might decide to ship spin instead, or decide that Eve is too much effort in terms of the time you can play it. Simple stuff really and your suggestion adds to that which is one of the reasons I went down the AFK flagging route.

Already explained what I was talking about in terms of Supers and Titans, but as you don't read stuff that is your issue, and don't know why you want to talk about nappies for, but Pampers seemed to work for my kids when they were babies...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6592 - 2016-09-06 08:22:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
My point is that CCP cannot take into account people's RL issues aside from, at best, the average....which means that pretty much 100% of the players are going to find that whatever CCP does will in some way be too little or too much.

Everyone has **** going on in their lives. I have a dog that is dying of bone cancer among other problems. I'm not about to stand here and demand that CCP structure their game balance around me or anyone else because they can't.

Yes, the average Eve player is older, and the Eve player base has aged. Should that be a factor in their game balance discussions? Maybe, but again...on average which won't mean much of anything to any player or players you pick at random because it is highly unlikely any player you pick will be the average.

So go on and keep laughing, it just proves what a fool you are.

And I still see how this has **** all to do with AFK cloaking, cloaks or super capitals...although it would be nice of you to explain the problem with super capitals....not that I'll expect you too. In fact, I expect another attempt to derail the thread. Maybe you'll bring up changing diapers.


You attempt at trolling just proves what a fool you are and I was not the one who suddenly declared that their dog had cancer and CCP should adjust around that using ridicule. Which is why I am laughing at you, sad troll attempt is still a sad troll attempt...

Cloaking is one way of dealing with RL getting in the way of the game based on the log off mechanics and timers and if you are being hunted, if you are not going to be able to get safe and you are likely to get interruptions then you might decide to ship spin instead, or decide that Eve is too much effort in terms of the time you can play it. Simple stuff really and your suggestion adds to that which is one of the reasons I went down the AFK flagging route.

Already explained what I was talking about in terms of Supers and Titans, but as you don't read stuff that is your issue, and don't know why you want to talk about nappies for, but Pampers seemed to work for my kids when they were babies...


I am not trolling. I'm dead serious. Can CCP take into account RL issues? Only on average, and that is largely meaningless as just about every single player will not fit with the average. A subset will be close, but the majority will not be.

And really you explained the problem with super capitals? Where?

Edit:

And if you can't take care of your problems in 2 (or 10 or 20, or 120 minutes or however long until you can start scanning down a cloaked ship) ******* log the **** off. Then come back when you have the time.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6593 - 2016-09-06 08:45:44 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
My point is that CCP cannot take into account people's RL issues aside from, at best, the average....which means that pretty much 100% of the players are going to find that whatever CCP does will in some way be too little or too much.

Everyone has **** going on in their lives. I have a dog that is dying of bone cancer among other problems. I'm not about to stand here and demand that CCP structure their game balance around me or anyone else because they can't.

Yes, the average Eve player is older, and the Eve player base has aged. Should that be a factor in their game balance discussions? Maybe, but again...on average which won't mean much of anything to any player or players you pick at random because it is highly unlikely any player you pick will be the average.

So go on and keep laughing, it just proves what a fool you are.

And I still see how this has **** all to do with AFK cloaking, cloaks or super capitals...although it would be nice of you to explain the problem with super capitals....not that I'll expect you too. In fact, I expect another attempt to derail the thread. Maybe you'll bring up changing diapers.


You attempt at trolling just proves what a fool you are and I was not the one who suddenly declared that their dog had cancer and CCP should adjust around that using ridicule. Which is why I am laughing at you, sad troll attempt is still a sad troll attempt...

Cloaking is one way of dealing with RL getting in the way of the game based on the log off mechanics and timers and if you are being hunted, if you are not going to be able to get safe and you are likely to get interruptions then you might decide to ship spin instead, or decide that Eve is too much effort in terms of the time you can play it. Simple stuff really and your suggestion adds to that which is one of the reasons I went down the AFK flagging route.

Already explained what I was talking about in terms of Supers and Titans, but as you don't read stuff that is your issue, and don't know why you want to talk about nappies for, but Pampers seemed to work for my kids when they were babies...


I am not trolling. I'm dead serious. Can CCP take into account RL issues? Only on average, and that is largely meaningless as just about every single player will not fit with the average. A subset will be close, but the majority will not be.

And really you explained the problem with super capitals? Where?

Edit:

And if you can't take care of your problems in 2 (or 10 or 20, or 120 minutes or however long until you can start scanning down a cloaked ship) ******* log the **** off. Then come back when you have the time.


Should I say real life interruptions of an unknown duration which seems pretty average to me. The cloak as it is does the job pretty well though you have to fit for it which has some issues.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6594 - 2016-09-06 08:54:59 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Should I say real life interruptions of an unknown duration which seems pretty average to me. The cloak as it is does the job pretty well though you have to fit for it which has some issues.


So how long is that "average"?

Serious question. How about we make the time which which a cloaked ship can be scanned is the following:

That "average" above + 10 minutes?

Now the "average" player can cloak, go AFK and come back and still have 10 minutes to decide on his next course of action.

Let us further say that "average" amount of time is 120 minutes (2 hours).

Now, our intrepid super capital pilot can jump is super into a system cloak up and have 130 minutes before he can be scanned down. Seems like a reasonable amount of time to me.

Super caps are safe. Cloaks are still pretty damn good. And we kill AFK cloaking deader than a door nail. And we remove local as a freebie and move into whatever structure system CCP puts forward.

Where is the problem?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6595 - 2016-09-06 09:03:35 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Should I say real life interruptions of an unknown duration which seems pretty average to me. The cloak as it is does the job pretty well though you have to fit for it which has some issues.


So how long is that "average"?

Serious question. How about we make the time which which a cloaked ship can be scanned is the following:

That "average" above + 10 minutes?

Now the "average" player can cloak, go AFK and come back and still have 10 minutes to decide on his next course of action.

Let us further say that "average" amount of time is 120 minutes (2 hours).

Now, our intrepid super capital pilot can jump is super into a system cloak up and have 130 minutes before he can be scanned down. Seems like a reasonable amount of time to me.

Super caps are safe. Cloaks are still pretty damn good. And we kill AFK cloaking deader than a door nail. And we remove local as a freebie and move into whatever structure system CCP puts forward.

Where is the problem?


120 minutes would work well, because it would cover most RL interruptions and also mean that the hunters would have to hunt and not get a five minute wonder, I could support that.

CCP will be moving local to an OS that has already been said.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6596 - 2016-09-06 15:30:03 UTC
No dracvlad, when the station is shot you dont do anything to the players within. If you want to argue that by working in groups you reduce their abilities then the exact same logic applies to afk cloaking. Ratting in groups reduces the effectiveness of an afk xloaker.

@ vipeer,

When your afk in a station i cant hunt you, so i cant play my game.
'go hunt somewhere else'
Yeah, just like you can rat somewhere else if there is an afk cloaker in system.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6597 - 2016-09-06 15:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Dracvlad wrote:
You are seriously bad at this, the key word is that with friends I can shoot station services until they go off line, this can be a major pain as it affects the clone bay, the repair shop and the industry, I have had it done to me and I have done it to others. I cannot do anything like that to people cloaked up in space.

So there are ways to get at people in stations, contrary to what he implied, just because you have no idea about certain aspects of the game does not mean that others like me don't.

And the answer is really.... Roll


Reading comprehension son.

Are you saying that's easier to accomplish than taking out a player who is solo in deep, hostile null? It's a yes or no question.

So, is your answer yes or no?

Someone docked in a station can still impact the game. Someone cloaked can't do anything to affect you, other than cause risk averse nullbears to dock up out of fear of their shadows. We've been over this.
vipeer
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#6598 - 2016-09-06 15:44:35 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Yeah, just like you can rat somewhere else if there is an afk cloaker in system.


I wouldn't mind if there is AFK Campers in 1 system.
But as it's been said before, when 1 guy can shutdown a full constellation of 10 systems with undetectable AFK alts the mechanic is broken. It's not easy to move ratting to other systems then, and especially not larger mining operations.

Infinite Point - a mature and stable PVP corp in TEST Alliance

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6599 - 2016-09-06 15:54:39 UTC
vipeer wrote:
I wouldn't mind if there is AFK Campers in 1 system.
But as it's been said before, when 1 guy can shutdown a full constellation of 10 systems with undetectable AFK alts the mechanic is broken. It's not easy to move ratting to other systems then, and especially not larger mining operations.


How does that person shut down systems? Do your PvE in PvP fit ships while in fleets and on comms. Laugh and kill the guy if he tries to drop you.

Mine in procurers/skiffs with a point fitted, lock them down when they drop you and call for help in comms.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6600 - 2016-09-06 15:58:44 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
vipeer wrote:
I wouldn't mind if there is AFK Campers in 1 system.
But as it's been said before, when 1 guy can shutdown a full constellation of 10 systems with undetectable AFK alts the mechanic is broken. It's not easy to move ratting to other systems then, and especially not larger mining operations.


How does that person shut down systems? Do your PvE in PvP fit ships while in fleets and on comms. Laugh and kill the guy if he tries to drop you.

Mine in procurers/skiffs with a point fitted, lock them down when they drop you and call for help in comms.


Test are being cloaky camped by PL, they have been doing just that. However as I keep pointing out setting up for and waiting for a risk averse feck to drop is rather frustrating, especially when they are in fact not at the keyboard... Kinda gets rather boring after a while....

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp