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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6381 - 2016-07-20 18:07:34 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
I am not going to reply directly to the trolls because one seems fixated on 20,000 as a number and another just seems to think that if trolls thinks its not good then its not good, well you are a troll. As for Teckos, it is designed to not impact cloaks themselves while reducing the impact of the lame AFK play which the people who do this sort of camping are doing, while rewarding those who make the effort to work out when they are likely to be active.

CCP is going to use OS's for local in sov space, my OS will sit behind that, like the one I suggested for watch list capabilities it will be ulnerable when it is active, so as such is not free, because it will need to be defended. This enables the camper if he has any hanging fruit to actually get a fight, amazing that. They will cost around 100m and do not have any reinforcement timers.

They do not require fuel, and are invulnerable when turned off. Only one can be active at any one time.

The flag is applied to any character in system who has not interacted with their client for more than one hour. With an AFK flag you can look around your screen to see what is on grid with you, but anything else will remove that flag.

The idea is simply to enable people to gather the intel when teh camper is likely to be active and thus negate the lame tactic of AFK camping, it also enables the players in that system to form up a fleet to bait them when they have worked out their play patterns.

It is not free intel because the structure costs ISK and needs active defence when it is active. Thus creating a point of conflict that is better than the ESS.

Some of you don't like it because I came up with the idea, some of you because you are lame AFK campers and others because you love to troll.

My objective with this is not to damage cloaks, acheived, not to change log off, and to reward active players who are prepared to fight as well as making the intel not free and requires people to be around to see the campers flag hit. Yes it can be gamed, and that is fine, it means that the player is ATK, and this is where intelligence comes in, its not a total guarantee.

I have covered all the angles with this idea, it will work and it deals with the issue of AFK play.

One of the trolls seems to think it makes it easier to hunt, well yes you little sparrow, but that is on the back of it bing made more difficult with the removal of watch lists and the introduction of skill injectors which means that AFK campers can create a clean effective toon that makes it impossible to work out the time that they play, its a balance against those two major impacts to intel gathering and risk assessment. But of course your feeble intellect cannot get around that point, sigh Roll

Anyway I would just like to thank you for continuing to post and enabling me to put forward this idea on the thread, I have already got a friend to talk to the devs on slack about it, so you know what, its out there in front of the devs. As is my watch list idea, hopefully CCP go with it. Does that make you feel happy, I hope not, lol.


Long story short, you can't respond to me so you passive aggressively called me a troll and avoided my points.

For the fourth time, why should you be able to easily hunt one specific person out of 20k logged on? You've yet to answer that.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6382 - 2016-07-20 19:56:34 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Long story short, you can't respond to me so you passive aggressively called me a troll and avoided my points.

For the fourth time, why should you be able to easily hunt one specific person out of 20k logged on? You've yet to answer that.


It is a totally stupid question and the answer is evident . If you cannot work that out then what hope is there for you... Roll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6383 - 2016-07-20 20:06:57 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
There are lots of destructive tactics in this game. They are fine, that is the nature of this game. Destroy your opponent. When the MBC formed their intent was destruction. I had no issue with it even though I'm on the short end of that stick. I'm not here whining about any of that. A guy loses his mining barge because he won't fit a tank and is semi-AFK, he should bear some of that responsibility. In fact, the game grew during a period when destroying things like mining barges and freighters were in a sense much easier. For freighters you could get insurance payouts thus, you could gank freighters with considerably lighter cargo value.

And the claim that lots of players left the game due to the weak tank of mining ships is something you cannot prove. Look at the data from from 2005-20010 and the trend is definitely upwards. For your claim to be true you'd have to show that more players are coming into the game and staying relative to those leaving and you do NOT have that data. So this claim is completely unsupported by anything even remotely rigorous.

And as the game caters more and more to these players who do not want to accept the consequences of their bad choices and who come here and complain about how harsh the game is, something that was once considered a feature BTW, the lower the number of log ins go.

As for destroying cloaking, you only use a special case/special snowflake argument. And in the end your only argument is to actually argue FOR AFK cloaking. The very thing that should go.

Here is what you do if you are doing exploration and are in hostile space and need to do RL stuff: logoff. There you go, simple and totally safe adaptation to the change in mechanics. Same thing with a super cap. If you need to take time between jumps....logoff.


I am not talking about destructive tactics, how can he destroy something when he is AFK? This is nothing to do with mining either, as far as I am concerned anoyone mining in a mining ship other than a Skiff or Procurer is a fool.

You don't mine, you have not done that, you don't know players who left the game during that period, I did, I saw them leave one by one after yet another gank and they blamed CCP. for poor game design. The truth is in what CCP did, someone actually analysed the numbers and adjusted the mining ships, they would not have done that ifor no reason at all. Only CCP has that data so prove me wrong then, you can't.

There is a major difference between going AFK and safe'ing up as compared to area denial, typical of people like you to ignore that reality.

Your suggestions destroys cloaks and makes them useless, the AFK flag is way better and maintains the harshness of the game, but does not reward AFK area deniel play.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6384 - 2016-07-20 21:42:18 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
There are lots of destructive tactics in this game. They are fine, that is the nature of this game. Destroy your opponent. When the MBC formed their intent was destruction. I had no issue with it even though I'm on the short end of that stick. I'm not here whining about any of that. A guy loses his mining barge because he won't fit a tank and is semi-AFK, he should bear some of that responsibility. In fact, the game grew during a period when destroying things like mining barges and freighters were in a sense much easier. For freighters you could get insurance payouts thus, you could gank freighters with considerably lighter cargo value.

And the claim that lots of players left the game due to the weak tank of mining ships is something you cannot prove. Look at the data from from 2005-20010 and the trend is definitely upwards. For your claim to be true you'd have to show that more players are coming into the game and staying relative to those leaving and you do NOT have that data. So this claim is completely unsupported by anything even remotely rigorous.

And as the game caters more and more to these players who do not want to accept the consequences of their bad choices and who come here and complain about how harsh the game is, something that was once considered a feature BTW, the lower the number of log ins go.

As for destroying cloaking, you only use a special case/special snowflake argument. And in the end your only argument is to actually argue FOR AFK cloaking. The very thing that should go.

Here is what you do if you are doing exploration and are in hostile space and need to do RL stuff: logoff. There you go, simple and totally safe adaptation to the change in mechanics. Same thing with a super cap. If you need to take time between jumps....logoff.


I am not talking about destructive tactics, how can he destroy something when he is AFK? This is nothing to do with mining either, as far as I am concerned anoyone mining in a mining ship other than a Skiff or Procurer is a fool.

You don't mine, you have not done that, you don't know players who left the game during that period, I did, I saw them leave one by one after yet another gank and they blamed CCP. for poor game design. The truth is in what CCP did, someone actually analysed the numbers and adjusted the mining ships, they would not have done that ifor no reason at all. Only CCP has that data so prove me wrong then, you can't.

There is a major difference between going AFK and safe'ing up as compared to area denial, typical of people like you to ignore that reality.

Your suggestions destroys cloaks and makes them useless, the AFK flag is way better and maintains the harshness of the game, but does not reward AFK area deniel play.


Hey there Kreskin you slipping a bit.

I have mined. My first alt was a mining character. As for those players who left...they got what they asked for, IMO. Same thing with freighter pilots. When I see people complaining about CODE. I just laugh at them. I find their posts full of wonderful irony.

And yes, "only CCP" has the data. And if you had read more carefully I was not trying to prove you wrong but point out that your claim is without any support aside from anecdotes. Thank you for basically agreeing with me.

With an AFK flag people will still AFK cloak to deny resources. It will work pretty much as it does now because nobody will undock because they do stuff solo and they'll scare themselves with "I don't know when he'll come back and be ATK...and if I don't notice!!!" We'll be back here with the same Bad Players complaining about AFK camping.

And again you cannot explain how cloaks would be useless. You just simply assert it. You are no better than the periodic poster who shows up and says, "Cloaks are fine."

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6385 - 2016-07-21 06:42:15 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Hey there Kreskin you slipping a bit.

I have mined. My first alt was a mining character. As for those players who left...they got what they asked for, IMO. Same thing with freighter pilots. When I see people complaining about CODE. I just laugh at them. I find their posts full of wonderful irony.

And yes, "only CCP" has the data. And if you had read more carefully I was not trying to prove you wrong but point out that your claim is without any support aside from anecdotes. Thank you for basically agreeing with me.

With an AFK flag people will still AFK cloak to deny resources. It will work pretty much as it does now because nobody will undock because they do stuff solo and they'll scare themselves with "I don't know when he'll come back and be ATK...and if I don't notice!!!" We'll be back here with the same Bad Players complaining about AFK camping.

And again you cannot explain how cloaks would be useless. You just simply assert it. You are no better than the periodic poster who shows up and says, "Cloaks are fine."


Kreskin? You really want to win a debate don't you, it seeps through every post, yet my idea is totally valid and you have come back with an idea that makes cloaks useless and your best shot against my idea is that it's free intel which it is not, my idea is vulnerable when active and requires defence.

Actually they did not get what they deserved, CCP got what they deserved, those threads talking about less and less players is what CCP deserved, I warned CCP that all that would be left would be scammers gankers, power gamers and player killers, this has largely happened and now they are leaving due to boredom. I have only lost a thrasher to Russian gankers, I have blown up so many Goons and CODE gankers its silly, that being said when I go to save a freighter, if it is a Charon with full cargo expanders I leave it to its fate. Ganking is fine, once bumping has this new mechanic I think it has a decent balance, I could not say that before.

Of course only CCP has that data, I can only go upon the people I know who left and their reasons, plus a surprisingly large number of ex-Eve indy players in Star Citizen. But as I pointed out CCP moved on buffing mining ships, they did that for a reason, late in the day I may add but they did. This gives me hope that they will deal with the AFK Cloaky camping problem, emphasis on the AFK part. I repeat myself, Eve is not well served by making people log off..., I often think that CODE and people like that want Eve to die which is why they target new players in particular.

With the AFK flag you are giving people who play and not whine something to use to enable them to fight, I don't care about the people who whine about being camped, I just want to remove the AFK part without destroying the cloak .

A cloak should prevent people from being probed down or seen, it is there to hide, if I was going to make it so that they could, perhaps the only good way would be by some feedback create by a pulse wave from a special OS that also had an impact on other things so there was a cost so it was not used willy nilly. I have already said that in this thread ages ago.

As I said your idea destroys the value in cloaking which is why I would not go with it, your suggestion would destroy casual play and this bee even more damaging to reasons to log in and thus I disagree with it. You advise people to man up and fight, my suggestion gives people a nudge in that direction and removes the AFK part of the equation which is poor gameplay which ever way you slice or dice it, only lazy usless fecks support AFK cloaky camping and it shows when they post, they are lazy by saying things like cloaking is fine or Local is bad without even exploring the balance issues of their statements.. But that is the toxic part of the Eve community, so thats how it goes.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6386 - 2016-07-21 18:26:09 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


[snipped to save space]



No, my Kreskin comment is about your annoying tendency to pretend to know what other people are thinking or have done in game. Example you comment about me and mining. You simply assumed I had not done it vs. actually doing something like asking.

When players whine and whine for nerfs, and then they get them and the players who got their style nerfed find an alternate route to get to the same outcome, maybe even more so that is called the law of unintended consequences. Those players are Bad™ because they do not understand the core nature of Eve. PvP--i.e. shooting other players--is the default option in all of the game. Everywhere. You can shoot someone in every part of the game. Some parts just come with steeper consequences. CONCORD is not there to protect anyone. They are there to impose consequences for engaging in aggressive acts in HS space. That is it. If you are lucky and took some precautions (i.e. you fit some tank) you might survive long enough for CONCORD to arrive and impose the consequences and save your stuff.

No player has the right in this game to avoid the consequences of their decisions. Every decision involves trade offs. Those who understand this do well. Those who do not end up being somebody’s victim. And of that latter group those who come to the forums and whine are particularly Bad™ because they are advertising it.

The same concept goes for AFK cloaking. With the current mechanics the idea of doing anomalies solo or mining solo is not a very viable option in sov NS. You need to change and make new choices. Yes, you might not make as much ISK, but you’ll keep your ADM levels up and you’ll still make some ISK. 80% of something is better than 0%.

Many of the players you describe despise CODE. I think that is a fantastic example of what this game is about. Change the mechanics and people who want to do something find a new way to do it. And what is so damn ironic is that if anything they are now better at it prior to the various nerfs. And yet we have these same Bad™ players whining on the forums.

Yes, CCP has data on who leaves and some data on why. But since they are not giving it out your claims are just based on anecdotes and there is every reason to find that kind of information highly suspect. For example there is confirmation bias. There is selection bias as well. I was not trying to “disprove” your claim, contrary to your assertions, merely pointing out you really don’t have any (good) evidence supporting your position (and no, anecdotes are not good evidence).

As for your AFK flag and fighting. WTFAYTA? Seriously that is just silly. You cannot fight someone who is AFK and cloaked with your solution. And most of the people who come and whine about AFK cloaking...they’ll still whine about AFK cloaking. Your solution is merely for your own purposes and not looking at the game as a whole. Any proposal that is based on the narrow self interest of a single player or even a group of players should automatically be viewed very dubiously, and the people proposing should provide something more than, “I want it.”

As for probing cloaked ships that will still not be possible in my preferred solution, unless you anchor an Observatory Array (OA) and fit it with the right module. Thus there is that issue of trade offs. If you want to scan down a cloaking ship you have to give up something else...opportunity cost. Further, the player(s) will have to do something to find said cloaked ship. The cloaked ship should still have some advantage--i.e. the probing is not as efficient and quick as with scanning down ships that cannot cloak. Thus, the cloaking ship will have an advantage in that it should have some time to warp to a new safe thus, resetting the whole process. This would make AFK cloaking very problematic while preserving a significant advantage for ATK cloaking.

As for destroying cloaks I just don’t see it. You can still use them to try and get past gate camps, hide from being probed, just not with 100% security. You can still gather intel, you’ll just have to be a bit more careful and use safe spots and tacticals to keep from being scanned down.

Further, the valuable intel that local is currently providing would be moved, to a large extent, into the OA...but if you fit the module to find cloaked ships you have to give up some other portion of intel. And it can be attacked and hopefully subverted, in which case you have reason to go out and go through hostile space with a gang. At the very least you can try and disrupt their intelligence infrastructure.

And once again, you fail to provide a cogent argument for how my suggestion destroys cloaks or even casual play. BTW, your super capital argument...if you are a casual player you probably should not have invested in a super cap. As for others, again no argument, just an assertion. You seem to think it should be just fine and dandy for a casual player to AFK while cloaked for hours on end. There is always the option of logging off for these players. I do not understand why this is a problem and you seem incapable of articulating a reason why it is a problem. After all these posts my only conclusion is you cannot articulate a valid response.

But please due respond by simply writing, "It destroyes cloaks." And maybe put in some exclamation points and 1s or even 11s.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6387 - 2016-07-21 18:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Teckos,

You always have to insult or make digs don't you. You cannot articulate something, blah blah blah.

I have laid my idea out very clearly, if you are unable to understand it that is your issue.

The points I have made above are clear and anyone looking at this with a reasonable eye would take what I said about casuals and supers and understand the point, but someone wanting to score points would reply as you do.

My suggestion keeps cloaks as something that enables people to deal with RL issues, there are plenty of circumstances where it is not just possible to safe log off.

The issue is the affect of someone not ATK, in other words AFK on normal gameplay, it affects a lot of players and often causes people to log off and play another game, this is not a good thing for Eve, simple as that. My idea of hunting them is because I like killing them so the intel I get from this balances off with the loss of the watch list and the injection of skills on clean characters.

It is all simple stuff and detailed above.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6388 - 2016-07-21 20:10:47 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos,

You always have to insult or make digs don't you. You cannot articulate something, blah blah blah.

I have laid my idea out very clearly, if you are unable to understand it that is your issue.

The points I have made above are clear and anyone looking at this with a reasonable eye would take what I said about casuals and supers and understand the point, but someone wanting to score points would reply as you do.

My suggestion keeps cloaks as something that enables people to deal with RL issues, there are plenty of circumstances where it is not just possible to safe log off.

The issue is the affect of someone not ATK, in other words AFK on normal gameplay, it affects a lot of players and often causes people to log off and play another game, this is not a good thing for Eve, simple as that. My idea of hunting them is because I like killing them so the intel I get from this balances off with the loss of the watch list and the injection of skills on clean characters.

It is all simple stuff and detailed above.


Then articulate an argument. Saying, "It destroys cloaks" is not an argument.

You have said nothing about casual players other than they can't AFK cloak for hours on end. Yeah, kind of the point. Such players will not have to logoff if RL calls. That is not some crazy notion. You have had zero response to this. And an AFK flag will not solve the AFK camping problem. People will still dock up and cry because they won't know when the guy is going to be ATK.

So once again, you fail to articulate an argument. And you cannot hunt anyone that is AFK can cloaked with your method. It is impossible. You have said this yourself, that if the person is AFK you cannot bait them.

And WTFAYTA with regards to skill injectors. Sorry, that looks like a complete non-sequitur.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6389 - 2016-07-22 05:34:03 UTC
it is designed to not impact cloaks themselves while reducing the impact of the lame AFK play which the people who do this sort of camping are doing, while rewarding those who make the effort to work out when they are likely to be active.

CCP is going to use OS's for local in sov space, my OS will sit behind that, like the one I suggested for watch list capabilities it will be ulnerable when it is active, so as such is not free, because it will need to be defended. This enables the camper if he has any hanging fruit to actually get a fight. They will cost around 100m and do not have any reinforcement timers.

They do not require fuel, and are invulnerable when turned off. Only one can be active at any one time.

The flag is applied to any character in system who has not interacted with their client for more than one hour. With an AFK flag you can look around your screen to see what is on grid with you, but anything else will remove that flag.

The idea is simply to enable people to gather the intel when the camper is likely to be active and thus negate the lame tactic of AFK camping, it also enables the players in that system to form up a fleet to bait them when they have worked out their play patterns.

It is not free intel because the structure costs ISK and needs active defence when it is active. Thus creating a point of conflict that is better than the ESS.

My objective with this is not to damage cloaks with all the knock on impacts to other ship classes and professions and most of all casual players that get called away fro RL, not to change log off, and to reward active players who are prepared to fight as well as making the intel not free and requires people to be around to see the campers flag come on, thius developing a knowledge of their real activity. Yes it can be gamed, and that is fine, it means that the player is ATK, and this is where intelligence comes in, its not a total guarantee.

I have covered all the angles with this idea, it will work and it deals with the issue of AFK play without destroying cloaks.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6390 - 2016-07-22 07:34:39 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
it is designed to not impact cloaks themselves while reducing the impact of the lame AFK play which the people who do this sort of camping are doing, while rewarding those who make the effort to work out when they are likely to be active.

CCP is going to use OS's for local in sov space, my OS will sit behind that, like the one I suggested for watch list capabilities it will be ulnerable when it is active, so as such is not free, because it will need to be defended. This enables the camper if he has any hanging fruit to actually get a fight. They will cost around 100m and do not have any reinforcement timers.

They do not require fuel, and are invulnerable when turned off. Only one can be active at any one time.

The flag is applied to any character in system who has not interacted with their client for more than one hour. With an AFK flag you can look around your screen to see what is on grid with you, but anything else will remove that flag.

The idea is simply to enable people to gather the intel when the camper is likely to be active and thus negate the lame tactic of AFK camping, it also enables the players in that system to form up a fleet to bait them when they have worked out their play patterns.

It is not free intel because the structure costs ISK and needs active defence when it is active. Thus creating a point of conflict that is better than the ESS.

My objective with this is not to damage cloaks with all the knock on impacts to other ship classes and professions and most of all casual players that get called away fro RL, not to change log off, and to reward active players who are prepared to fight as well as making the intel not free and requires people to be around to see the campers flag come on, thius developing a knowledge of their real activity. Yes it can be gamed, and that is fine, it means that the player is ATK, and this is where intelligence comes in, its not a total guarantee.

I have covered all the angles with this idea, it will work and it deals with the issue of AFK play without destroying cloaks.


And yet another post where you fail to explain how my suggestion damages cloaks.

Maybe you should just admit you can't offer such an explanation.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6391 - 2016-07-22 07:50:35 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
it is designed to not impact cloaks themselves while reducing the impact of the lame AFK play which the people who do this sort of camping are doing, while rewarding those who make the effort to work out when they are likely to be active.

CCP is going to use OS's for local in sov space, my OS will sit behind that, like the one I suggested for watch list capabilities it will be ulnerable when it is active, so as such is not free, because it will need to be defended. This enables the camper if he has any hanging fruit to actually get a fight. They will cost around 100m and do not have any reinforcement timers.

They do not require fuel, and are invulnerable when turned off. Only one can be active at any one time.

The flag is applied to any character in system who has not interacted with their client for more than one hour. With an AFK flag you can look around your screen to see what is on grid with you, but anything else will remove that flag.

The idea is simply to enable people to gather the intel when the camper is likely to be active and thus negate the lame tactic of AFK camping, it also enables the players in that system to form up a fleet to bait them when they have worked out their play patterns.

It is not free intel because the structure costs ISK and needs active defence when it is active. Thus creating a point of conflict that is better than the ESS.

My objective with this is not to damage cloaks with all the knock on impacts to other ship classes and professions and most of all casual players that get called away fro RL, not to change log off, and to reward active players who are prepared to fight as well as making the intel not free and requires people to be around to see the campers flag come on, thius developing a knowledge of their real activity. Yes it can be gamed, and that is fine, it means that the player is ATK, and this is where intelligence comes in, its not a total guarantee.

I have covered all the angles with this idea, it will work and it deals with the issue of AFK play without destroying cloaks.


And yet another post where you fail to explain how my suggestion damages cloaks.

Maybe you should just admit you can't offer such an explanation.


What would be the point of having cloaks if they can be probed down like any other ship.

I am consistent with my argument, my issue is AFK play which means I cannot hunt them if they are AFK because the only thing I can do is bait them, so instead of wasting time trying to bait a player who is AFK or instead of logging off because I just do not know, I can build up my knowledge of the camper and act accordingly by baiting him or ignoring him. Yes there is still risk, but it is a calculated risk, not a complete shot in the dark.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6392 - 2016-07-22 08:18:24 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


What would be the point of having cloaks if they can be probed down like any other ship.


Good thing I never wrote anything like that. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#6393 - 2016-07-22 11:25:28 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
it is designed to not impact cloaks themselves while reducing the impact of the lame AFK play which the people who do this sort of camping are doing, while rewarding those who make the effort to work out when they are likely to be active.

CCP is going to use OS's for local in sov space, my OS will sit behind that, like the one I suggested for watch list capabilities it will be ulnerable when it is active, so as such is not free, because it will need to be defended. This enables the camper if he has any hanging fruit to actually get a fight. They will cost around 100m and do not have any reinforcement timers.

They do not require fuel, and are invulnerable when turned off. Only one can be active at any one time.

The flag is applied to any character in system who has not interacted with their client for more than one hour. With an AFK flag you can look around your screen to see what is on grid with you, but anything else will remove that flag.

The idea is simply to enable people to gather the intel when the camper is likely to be active and thus negate the lame tactic of AFK camping, it also enables the players in that system to form up a fleet to bait them when they have worked out their play patterns.

It is not free intel because the structure costs ISK and needs active defence when it is active. Thus creating a point of conflict that is better than the ESS.

My objective with this is not to damage cloaks with all the knock on impacts to other ship classes and professions and most of all casual players that get called away fro RL, not to change log off, and to reward active players who are prepared to fight as well as making the intel not free and requires people to be around to see the campers flag come on, thius developing a knowledge of their real activity. Yes it can be gamed, and that is fine, it means that the player is ATK, and this is where intelligence comes in, its not a total guarantee.

I have covered all the angles with this idea, it will work and it deals with the issue of AFK play without destroying cloaks.


And yet another post where you fail to explain how my suggestion damages cloaks.

Maybe you should just admit you can't offer such an explanation.


What would be the point of having cloaks if they can be probed down like any other ship.

I am consistent with my argument, my issue is AFK play which means I cannot hunt them if they are AFK because the only thing I can do is bait them, so instead of wasting time trying to bait a player who is AFK or instead of logging off because I just do not know, I can build up my knowledge of the camper and act accordingly by baiting him or ignoring him. Yes there is still risk, but it is a calculated risk, not a complete shot in the dark.


You choose to log off instead of doing anything else. There are many things you could be doing instead of logging off, but that is your choice. AFK-cloaker seems to be the only way to have risk in nullsec-PVE and that seems to **** people off. Stop seeing your risk either as safe or dead. It's not a black and white thing.

Wormholer for life.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6394 - 2016-07-22 15:07:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Wander Prian wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
What would be the point of having cloaks if they can be probed down like any other ship.

I am consistent with my argument, my issue is AFK play which means I cannot hunt them if they are AFK because the only thing I can do is bait them, so instead of wasting time trying to bait a player who is AFK or instead of logging off because I just do not know, I can build up my knowledge of the camper and act accordingly by baiting him or ignoring him. Yes there is still risk, but it is a calculated risk, not a complete shot in the dark.


You choose to log off instead of doing anything else. There are many things you could be doing instead of logging off, but that is your choice. AFK-cloaker seems to be the only way to have risk in nullsec-PVE and that seems to **** people off. Stop seeing your risk either as safe or dead. It's not a black and white thing.


I suggest you go back and read the previous five pages, then you will realise that it was generalisation of what happens and the simple fact that with the Watch list now a buddy list, which means I cannot keep tabs on the people who will drop in the area and the use of skill injectors to make a clean covert cyno toon that is impossible to ascertain its active time or who it is linked to, so that logging off becomes the only valid action for a lot of people.

You can see it from another side, if people want to be lazy boring fecks and cloaky AFK camp someone, I can be a lazy boring feck and not bother to log in and many people do just that, how to win EVE in one simple lesson... Roll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6395 - 2016-07-22 15:10:15 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


What would be the point of having cloaks if they can be probed down like any other ship.


Good thing I never wrote anything like that. Roll


Then you need to spell it out better, you said something about an OA then being able to probe them, it did not make much sense. So if you can go back over your idea I will give it my honest view.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#6396 - 2016-07-22 15:45:02 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
What would be the point of having cloaks if they can be probed down like any other ship.

I am consistent with my argument, my issue is AFK play which means I cannot hunt them if they are AFK because the only thing I can do is bait them, so instead of wasting time trying to bait a player who is AFK or instead of logging off because I just do not know, I can build up my knowledge of the camper and act accordingly by baiting him or ignoring him. Yes there is still risk, but it is a calculated risk, not a complete shot in the dark.


You choose to log off instead of doing anything else. There are many things you could be doing instead of logging off, but that is your choice. AFK-cloaker seems to be the only way to have risk in nullsec-PVE and that seems to **** people off. Stop seeing your risk either as safe or dead. It's not a black and white thing.


I suggest you go back and read the previous five pages, then you will realise that it was generalisation of what happens and the simple fact that with the Watch list now a buddy list, which means I cannot keep tabs on the people who will drop in the area and the use of skill injectors to make a clean covert cyno toon that is impossible to ascertain its active time or who it is linked to, so that logging off becomes the only valid action for a lot of people.

You can see it from another side, if people want to be lazy boring fecks and cloaky AFK camp someone, I can be a lazy boring feck and not bother to log in and many people do just that, how to win EVE in one simple lesson... Roll


I've been in here for the last 100-150 pages and I've yet to see any valid reason for nerfing cloaks or adding any kind of AFK-flag except for entitlement and risk-aversion.

Wormholer for life.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6397 - 2016-07-22 16:06:25 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
I've been in here for the last 100-150 pages and I've yet to see any valid reason for nerfing cloaks or adding any kind of AFK-flag except for entitlement and risk-aversion.


Well that is your opinion, other people have different opinions.

But the use of the word entitlement and risk aversion indicates a certain line of thought, most WH people I come across have a thing about local because they can't sneak up on people because of it and whine for a nerf to local, that is in my opinion them being entitled.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#6398 - 2016-07-22 16:20:49 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
I've been in here for the last 100-150 pages and I've yet to see any valid reason for nerfing cloaks or adding any kind of AFK-flag except for entitlement and risk-aversion.


Well that is your opinion, other people have different opinions.

But the use of the word entitlement and risk aversion indicates a certain line of thought, most WH people I come across have a thing about local because they can't sneak up on people because of it and whine for a nerf to local, that is in my opinion them being entitled.


What astonishes me the most is the fact that sov-null has the best, most accurate and instant intel about is there anyone who you need to be worried about in the system, and you are STILL asking for more. Right now the only thing that adds any uncertainty is someone who is cloaked in the system. Hell, I've been called an AFK-cloaker after being in the system for LESS THAN 10 minutes. Sometimes you don't get a direct counter to everything .Deal with it. Learn the patterns, adapt to them. Do not just throw your hands into the air and give up while crying to CCP about how OP it is.

Wormholer for life.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6399 - 2016-07-22 16:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Wander Prian wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
I've been in here for the last 100-150 pages and I've yet to see any valid reason for nerfing cloaks or adding any kind of AFK-flag except for entitlement and risk-aversion.


Well that is your opinion, other people have different opinions.

But the use of the word entitlement and risk aversion indicates a certain line of thought, most WH people I come across have a thing about local because they can't sneak up on people because of it and whine for a nerf to local, that is in my opinion them being entitled.


What astonishes me the most is the fact that sov-null has the best, most accurate and instant intel about is there anyone who you need to be worried about in the system, and you are STILL asking for more. Right now the only thing that adds any uncertainty is someone who is cloaked in the system. Hell, I've been called an AFK-cloaker after being in the system for LESS THAN 10 minutes. Sometimes you don't get a direct counter to everything .Deal with it. Learn the patterns, adapt to them. Do not just throw your hands into the air and give up while crying to CCP about how OP it is.


I knew you were a local hater, LolRoll Admit it is entitlement, you want easier kills, seriously.

And later for you you will jump into a system and find no local for you, but they will have it, I am going to enjoy the whining by WH players a lot. But you can shoot the OS so you can remove it with blowing things up...

As I said earlier something was removed, watch list, something was added skill injectors which changed the balance of learning the patterns and ascertaining risk. As you guys can control the hole which is the only access to your systems you tend to have a lack of respect for the power of cyno's. Unlike you I have not been sat in a WH with hole control, I have operated in systems being camped by top level 0.0 alliances and know exactly what this is like. But of course to you I am entitled and risk averse, except that I am not...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#6400 - 2016-07-22 16:41:55 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
I've been in here for the last 100-150 pages and I've yet to see any valid reason for nerfing cloaks or adding any kind of AFK-flag except for entitlement and risk-aversion.


Well that is your opinion, other people have different opinions.

But the use of the word entitlement and risk aversion indicates a certain line of thought, most WH people I come across have a thing about local because they can't sneak up on people because of it and whine for a nerf to local, that is in my opinion them being entitled.


What astonishes me the most is the fact that sov-null has the best, most accurate and instant intel about is there anyone who you need to be worried about in the system, and you are STILL asking for more. Right now the only thing that adds any uncertainty is someone who is cloaked in the system. Hell, I've been called an AFK-cloaker after being in the system for LESS THAN 10 minutes. Sometimes you don't get a direct counter to everything .Deal with it. Learn the patterns, adapt to them. Do not just throw your hands into the air and give up while crying to CCP about how OP it is.


I knew you were a local hater, LolRoll Admit it is entitlement, you want easier kills, seriously.

And later for you you will jump into a system and find no local for you, but they will have it, I am going to enjoy the whining by WH players a lot.

As I said earlier something was removed, watch list, something was added skill injectors which changed the balance of learning the patterns and ascertaining risk. As you guys can control the hole which is the only access to your systems you tend to have a lack of respect for the power of cyno's. Unlike you I have not been sat in a WH with hole control, I have operated in systems being camped by top level 0.0 alliances and know exactly what this is like. But of course to you I am entitled and risk averse, except that I am not...


Local is a usefull tool for both sides. What I don't get is why that 100% accurate, instant intel you get is not enough for you.

FYI: That one wormhole is not the only entrance that can be into the system. While you can roll a wormhole and keep your static closed, nothing stops new ones from spawning into your system.

Wormholer for life.