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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6161 - 2016-06-15 18:39:32 UTC
Logan Jakal wrote:
I am talking about nerfs for the cloaking device, learn to read instead of asking people to "not be so horrible", or at least apply it to yourself first.


Uhmmm excuse me? You do see that Philip wanted to nerf cynos. That there is a delay in activating the cyno depending on how long one is cloaked.

Quote:
Philip Shazih wrote:
While the new structure is active in sov null their is a delay between hitting the covert cyno button and when the mod is activated, the covert cyno decloaks you.
This delay would be based on how long you have been continuasly in the same system. If you have been in system for less then 20 min, no delay after that it inreases quickly... to a max of 30 sec.


To which I replied,

Quote:
First off, cynos have already been nerfed via jump fatigue. Stop it with the freaking nerfs already. There is no need for a delay to a covert cyno.


It is a nerf to cynos.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6162 - 2016-06-15 18:43:21 UTC
Robertina Palazzo wrote:

Cloaking having a counter would be like everything else in the game


What is the counter for local?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

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Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#6163 - 2016-06-19 15:40:07 UTC
Nothing, but knowing there is a guy camping system, that you can't scan down, and each time you try to bait he's "really" afk. doesn't help much. And the system (your own) is locked down, no matter how many people you have, that's unbalanced.
He might decloak and go for a barge, or wait 2 months and tackle a super, you don't know who's toon it is or what he'll drop because of skill injectors and empty killboard. 2 weeks old, covert cyno tengu ^^

Got nothing against camping wormholes (not for weeks thou, pretty sure that's called being a **** and against the eula), there is no local at all, but also no cynos and the amount of ships enemy can bring is limited. Residents can also roll the hole.


So, if there will be a module for citadel, or in future, for the Observatory i'm supporting it hands down. Sov carebears should have some kind of way to scan down a guy sitting 24/7 in a system, even if it takes a bit and he can "just" move every 10 minutes to avoid scan.

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Logan Jakal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6164 - 2016-06-20 09:23:26 UTC
There are plenty of solutions.

-Cloak probes, seems pretty cool to me, the guy needs to move if he doesn't want to be detected, and at least it breaks the whole AFK cloak stuff.
-Cloak fatigue, the longer you stay cloaked, the longer it takes you to be able to cloak again (good for plebs camping in stratios/tengu/bomber/IDK), tho, cloak fatigue shouldn't affect Black Opses (Role Bonus : Not affected by cloak fatigue ?).
-Module frying after a long use (that's a friend's idea, sound great to me).
-Citadel module to bring down cloaks.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6165 - 2016-06-20 20:19:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Blade Darth wrote:
Nothing, but knowing there is a guy camping system, that you can't scan down, and each time you try to bait he's "really" afk. doesn't help much. And the system (your own) is locked down, no matter how many people you have, that's unbalanced.
He might decloak and go for a barge, or wait 2 months and tackle a super, you don't know who's toon it is or what he'll drop because of skill injectors and empty killboard. 2 weeks old, covert cyno tengu ^^

Got nothing against camping wormholes (not for weeks thou, pretty sure that's called being a **** and against the eula), there is no local at all, but also no cynos and the amount of ships enemy can bring is limited. Residents can also roll the hole.


So, if there will be a module for citadel, or in future, for the Observatory i'm supporting it hands down. Sov carebears should have some kind of way to scan down a guy sitting 24/7 in a system, even if it takes a bit and he can "just" move every 10 minutes to avoid scan.


Then perhaps cloaking is the counter to local, and since local is indefinite and low cost...cloaking should be the same?

Or maybe we should address both issues....which is what CCP has strongly indicated. That local is going buh-bye and you'll have to use the new structure and the appropriate modules to get local "back".

At the same time scanning down an AFK cloaked ship becomes possible.

There the invulnerable and infallible nature of local is gone as is AFK cloaking.

Rejoice and be happy. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6166 - 2016-06-20 20:22:42 UTC
Logan Jakal wrote:
There are plenty of solutions.

-Cloak probes, seems pretty cool to me, the guy needs to move if he doesn't want to be detected, and at least it breaks the whole AFK cloak stuff.
-Cloak fatigue, the longer you stay cloaked, the longer it takes you to be able to cloak again (good for plebs camping in stratios/tengu/bomber/IDK), tho, cloak fatigue shouldn't affect Black Opses (Role Bonus : Not affected by cloak fatigue ?).
-Module frying after a long use (that's a friend's idea, sound great to me).
-Citadel module to bring down cloaks.


Those are all unbalanced so long as local is left untouched.

Now we get to watch you guys whine, ***** and moan about how awful this will be and reveal who the true "carebears" are.

And why do you dimbulbs use that term as if it were an insult? Call me a carebear or nullbear all you want, I think it is a stupid insult. People doing industry, mining, and so forth a necessary part of the game. What is problematic is that being in one of those professions also correlates rather strongly with being a bad player--i.e. when something pops up they don't like they want to nerf it in favor of their own playstyle.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

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Logan Jakal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6167 - 2016-06-20 21:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Logan Jakal
AFK cloaking and cloaky camping has nothing to do with local, what you say is both bullshit and bad faith. Nobody wants a broken mechanic to be used in-game, if there was a broken mechanic to detect cloaked people, you would be the first one to cry about it.

The only advantage of local in this case is to give you the intel about the fact that there is indeed a ****** that has nothing better to do than to camp a single system all day long, but still, you can't do anything about it. You don't want to be bothered by local ? Go live in wormhole and deal with it, I don't want to be bothered by a ****** standing at the same place all day long having no way to counter him.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6168 - 2016-06-20 22:10:31 UTC
Logan Jakal wrote:
AFK cloaking and cloaky camping has nothing to do with local, what you say is both bullshit and bad faith. Nobody wants a broken mechanic to be used in-game, if there was a broken mechanic to detect cloaked people, you would be the first one to cry about it.

The only advantage of local in this case is to give you the intel about the fact that there is indeed a ****** that has nothing better to do than to camp a single system all day long, but still, you can't do anything about it. You don't want to be bothered by local ? Go live in wormhole and deal with it, I don't want to be bothered by a ****** standing at the same place all day long having no way to counter him.


How do you know there is an AFK cloaking ship in your system?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

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Logan Jakal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6169 - 2016-06-21 09:24:06 UTC
When you see the same guy standing in a system all day long waiting for a carrier to undock and hotdrop him, you kinda get it.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#6170 - 2016-06-21 10:59:31 UTC
Baited on a free troll post.

The camper won't hotdrop you, often it's just a toon with empty killboard, providing a warp-in for the actual hotdrop. Maybe he will anchor a bubble first so your super gets stuck :)

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Logan Jakal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6171 - 2016-06-21 11:58:55 UTC
Blade Darth wrote:
Baited on a free troll post.

The camper won't hotdrop you, often it's just a toon with empty killboard, providing a warp-in for the actual hotdrop. Maybe he will anchor a bubble first so your super gets stuck :)


Or it is an actual hotdroper that I already saw doing so.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6172 - 2016-06-21 18:51:27 UTC
Logan Jakal wrote:
When you see the same guy standing in a system all day long waiting for a carrier to undock and hotdrop him, you kinda get it.


Okay, but how do you see him in system? He's cloaked. You can't see his ship. You can't see him on d-scan. You can't see him with probes. How do you know he is there? What exactly tells you he is in system with you?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Logan Jakal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6173 - 2016-06-21 19:32:00 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:
When you see the same guy standing in a system all day long waiting for a carrier to undock and hotdrop him, you kinda get it.


Okay, but how do you see him in system? He's cloaked. You can't see his ship. You can't see him on d-scan. You can't see him with probes. How do you know he is there? What exactly tells you he is in system with you?


Dude, what the hell are you talking about ? I never said that he is with me.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6174 - 2016-06-21 21:29:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Logan Jakal wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:
When you see the same guy standing in a system all day long waiting for a carrier to undock and hotdrop him, you kinda get it.


Okay, but how do you see him in system? He's cloaked. You can't see his ship. You can't see him on d-scan. You can't see him with probes. How do you know he is there? What exactly tells you he is in system with you?


Dude, what the hell are you talking about ? I never said that he is with me.


Are you being deliberately obtuse?

If I am in system XYZ-123 and you are in system, I am in the system with you...even though we are not blue and I will shoot your first chance I get, and vice versa.

My question remains. How do you know that there is a cloaky camper in the system you are in? What mechanic tells you he is there while you are there?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

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Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6175 - 2016-06-22 05:16:34 UTC
Synaptic Fibers and a T2 Obscurium Injector. Even as a youngster, when my ears went all tingly like, that's when I knew an 'augmented' Bogeyman was on the loose.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#6176 - 2016-06-23 23:23:13 UTC
http://i.imgflip.com/16abaw.jpg

Here is my friend's story, not afk cloaky (more log-on trap) but close enough.

Joined public fleet with one of toons, everything going to plan- getting drunk, fleet FC late and logged on opposite side of galaxy not knowing what's going on and where is fleet, dank memes in chat and so on.
Also ratting couple regions away from fleet, known neutral camper shows in local.
"guys, guys, got an archon in xyz, quick, burn" yells a fleet member (very excited)
"landing. wait, where is he, got only MTU on grid"
"HE IS IN FLEET WHY WE HAVE RATTING ARCHON IN FLEET"

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6177 - 2016-06-24 18:19:04 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Synaptic Fibers and a T2 Obscurium Injector. Even as a youngster, when my ears went all tingly like, that's when I knew an 'augmented' Bogeyman was on the loose.


Dammit Brokk, now Logan is probably scouring the markets for a T2 Obscurium Injector.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6178 - 2016-06-25 05:01:23 UTC
Since Logan can't bring himself to answer, the way he knows somebody is cloaked and in the same system he is in....is local. But local has nothing to do with AFK cloaking.

M
O
R
O
N

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

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Noga Taranogas
Doomheim
#6179 - 2016-06-25 07:49:56 UTC
remove covert cynos from blockade runners, prospects, and stealth bombers.

covert cloak requires fuel -liquid ozone to fuel that spatial distortion field. fuel runs out and they get to feel unsafe in space like everyone else. prototype and improved -burn through fuel faster.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6180 - 2016-06-25 12:56:59 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Robertina Palazzo wrote:

Cloaking having a counter would be like everything else in the game


What is the counter for local?


Logoff traps...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp