Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Sorry Mike, you keep saying it is bad to have a cloak running around gathering intel and you can't stop him. Somebody says, "Hey, specially fit ceptor!" and you move the goal posts. Nice job.

And if it is effort that is important, then moving local into a POS that is vulnerable, takes effort (and choices) to set up, and defend, etc. is the way to go too.

But they are vulnerable Mike. The problem is you have decreed cloaks are safe everywhere, literally as safe as being docked everywhere. Despite being shown this claim is false, you doggedly stick to this claim. Whenever somebody points out, "You can be decloaked in this situation" you respond with, "Oh, well that doesn't count." Despite people saying a cloaked ship can get decloaked in situations S(1),...,S(n) you say keep saying perfectly safe. So we know perfectly safe is a false claim in general. Further, I contend that to keep that perfect safety you have to avoid those instances when you are not perfectly safe and that greatly hampers one's ability to "do things not available while docked".

In other words, you are over generalizing when it suits you, and then ignoring the dangers to cloaked ships when it suits you. This is why there are claims about your intellectual honesty.

Is a cloaked ship at risk warping to a gate? Yes.
Is a cloaked ship at risk jumping through a gate? Yes.
Is a cloaked ship at risk warping to a POS, moon, planet, sun, POCO, etc.? Yes.

How does one reduce that risk? Stay at your safe spot.

Problem is staying at that safe spot makes those the cloaked ship might try to attack safer as well and in the case of the cloaked ship they are 100% safe...as safe as being docked.

This strikes me a pretty balanced.

But Teckos, only an idiot wouldn't use a scout for their scout for their scout for their scout for their scout for their scout for their scout for their scout which should be using a crystal ball to spot the sabre on the other side to scout the fleet!

Thus we can clearly see anyone who dies in a covops is bad

/s

sigh

It is a fact that local favors the incumbent over then entrant. A fact. So that claim Mike is demonstrably false.

You want to inflate the danger to a cloaked ship, then say it's balanced on a painfully irrational estimate of their risk.

At risk warping to a gate? Infinitesimal to the point of no risk at all if they are at all intelligent and don't warp to zero.
At risk jumping through a gate? Far less than most other ships.
At risk warping to an object? Again, infinitesimal to the point of no risk at all if they are intelligent.

Meanwhile, they take whatever actions they choose with a better range of intel than someone leaving a station, and do it from a position that cannot be camped, unlike a station.

Meanwhile, they are capable of gathering specific intel and setting up ambushes, and keeping tabs on the system completely free of risk. They are too safe for having a range of effective actions they can take. Reduce the safety or reduce their options to match the safety they have.

There's that elephant again.

Safety is a two way street. We already know the position taken, in regards to safety at a secret safe spot.
Safety for cloakers also fluctuates when active, unlike stations.

Now then, back to that root elephant problem......

Then you will let me refit, repair, change my clone, jump clone and change ships while cloaked too? Station safety, station benefits.

See what I did there Mike?

You mean that without local they could not project threat. Sure. That's just one small issue in a much larger problem, and a stupid solution in any case. Kind of like removing the light bulb from a warning light and calling the problem fixed.

Just because you are not aware of it, that does not mean the threat isn't there. AFK cloaking is a symptom. The problem being that cloaks offer too much range of ability for their safety. Since the safety is inviolate, the range of activity needs to be reduced to an appropriate level. As the safety is in fact higher than that offered by a station, then the range of action must be quite limited in deed.

Of the neverending cowardice of carebears.




You are the biggest liar in the history of this forum, even if not in your absurdly dishonest post history, but just for this one sentence alone.

Oh Mike. The highsec is strong in this one. Let me help you out:

at risk when warping to a gate: granted, not so much. But you can definitely take them on the other side! That said, not everybody has a bookmark off the gate, and bouncing to a celestial is the oldest trick in the book. Those directions may very well have a permanent dragbubble and decloaking cans (or a mobile depot LOL) anchored. The proficient player will cap himself out and get close enough for a DScan, but at some point he'll want to warp to the gate and go through it.

at risk when jumping through a gate? Hell yeah! You bubble his assss---rear end- and a frig can get a good decloak on them like 80% of the time. Possibly more, but that's accounting for him burning out of your bubble or landing at a favourable location. To do this, have your Stiletto / Daredevil / whatever you use sit aboven or below the gatestructure, MWD primed, and burn as soon as he loses his gatecloak. Other tactics, such as a couple drone carriers spread out at several km from the gate also work. And dropping cans.

At risk when warping to an object? Same rules as for a gate apply, but it gets better:

in a belt, it may be very hard to get close enough without getting decloaked by asteroids / rats. Especially with gimped velocity under cloak.

in a complex, it get even better: people tend to drop their MTU or a can where you come out of the acceleration gate. This is a fixed location you cannot circumvent by warping from other directions or at range, therefore the decloak is guaranteed.



Briefly put: you forgot to account for DICs and dragbubbles. Every time you can "force" the inbound location and anchor a can, you have defeated the cloak. Every time you prevent a cloaker from warping off straight away, you have a chance to manually decloak him. All the bubbles man.