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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#501 - 2015-01-22 16:58:05 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:


Hot dropping is a definite aspect of the problem

-snip-

It boils down to PvE players being able to deal with the covert threats directly, without reshipping into PvP specific craft.
It is not reasonable to expect an intelligent player to expose themselves to an obvious loss, regardless of whether they are in an exhumer or a cloaked frigate.


Man that is so much a pvp ship I have here.

I've been PVEing in null sec since 2008 and the 1st thing I noticed was the whining about 'afk cloakers'. I've never understood why people see it as a problem. But then I've never been the type to think the game should cater to my personal needs either.

The end of afk cloaking (or introducing some kind of 'counter') would benefit me greatly. I rat in null every evening, lately I've done so with 3 characters (my Mach pilot, my Gila pilot and my carrier assiging 5 fighters to me and 5 fighters to my buddy in his Mach, nothing says "I love you" to npcs like 4500 dps). If I didn't have to react to cloaked people coming in to my ratting system, man could i ever make more isk than I already am.

I mean, screw the EVE economy that the AFK cloakers actually indirectly help regulate and screw other people playing the game they way they want to. Hell, screw using the tools that ALREADY EXIST (like warp core stabs, target lock breakers, MJDs, Mobile MJDs, Mobil Cyno Inhibitors, Mobile Scan Inhibitors, FoF missiles, energy neutralizers, ECM, ECM drones, ECM bursts, Cynos, Defensive bubbles, friends, alts, friends with alts, alts with friends, etc etc).

It's all about me, right, so CCP should just 'fix it'? That's how all these 'afk cloaking is a problem' people think, so why not?

I agree with you.

I have repeatedly pointed out, that no change is required.

But for those that DO insist one is needed, I point out the necessity of maintaining balance, rather than simply buff null PvE into oblivion.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#502 - 2015-01-22 17:08:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Leannor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


I mean, screw the EVE economy that the AFK cloakers actually indirectly help regulate and screw other people playing the game they way they want to. Hell, screw using the tools that ALREADY EXIST (like warp core stabs, target lock breakers, MJDs, Mobile MJDs, Mobil Cyno Inhibitors, Mobile Scan Inhibitors, FoF missiles, energy neutralizers, ECM, ECM drones, ECM bursts, Cynos, Defensive bubbles, friends, alts, friends with alts, alts with friends, etc etc).


Show me the tool that already exists to scan down a cloaked ship? Or even get within range to then use other means to decloak it. Or a means to wear down a cloak so that it becomes not a cloak.

All those things you say above deal with an uncloaked ship.


Translation: "If i can't do it the way I want, I won't do it at all, CCP change it!!!" If a cloaked ship can't do anything to you, why are you worried about it.

What I do is make sure that even if it decloaks it can't do anything to me.

That's exactly my point, the anti-afk cloaking crowd is no different than the anti-ganking/bumping crowd (who, despite mining ships that can achieve ludicrous tanks and freaking ANCHOR RIGS , still beg for ccp intervention). This crowd doesn't want 'answers' or 'solutions', they want 'fixes' to how other people play the game.

A real player deals with problems with what tools they have, they don't run to mommy (DEVs) because someone is doing something they don't like.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#503 - 2015-01-22 17:37:09 UTC
Leannor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


I mean, screw the EVE economy that the AFK cloakers actually indirectly help regulate and screw other people playing the game they way they want to. Hell, screw using the tools that ALREADY EXIST (like warp core stabs, target lock breakers, MJDs, Mobile MJDs, Mobil Cyno Inhibitors, Mobile Scan Inhibitors, FoF missiles, energy neutralizers, ECM, ECM drones, ECM bursts, Cynos, Defensive bubbles, friends, alts, friends with alts, alts with friends, etc etc).


Show me the tool that already exists to scan down a cloaked ship? Or even get within range to then use other means to decloak it. Or a means to wear down a cloak so that it becomes not a cloak.

All those things you say above deal with an uncloaked ship.


Name one thing an AFK cloaker can do other than show up as a name in local intel.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#504 - 2015-01-22 17:44:09 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Sexy Cakes wrote:
If people are AFK they can't harm you.
AFK cloaking is fine.
Risk averse pansies too afraid to bait out a blops a gang are the problem.
So, you think a counter drop must sit around 23.5/7 - ready to go at a moment's notice because one guy has put an alt in a system?
How many accounts and resources should we have on gruelling "fun" standby for one guy that sits pretty in a perfectly safe cloak?
Hmmm.... considering how many people can fly bombers for example, how many should be sitting in a few nearby systems all rubbing against each other trying to rat in black ops ships while they try and kill the tedium of waiting?

It is absurd.
Like building a house with a faulty floor and dead bolt from the inside basement. Someone keeps crawling in there, locking themselves in then spearing you from between the floor boards and you have to have to keep dancing around hoping there is enough people that one of them can grab the spear and pull it out of the floor.

Forget it.
I can't even make a good analogy for this. It is such stupid game design. Roll


So here is what you do.

AFK rat until you die to said cloaker to figure out his timezone.

AFK rat in a bait ship in said timezone.

Kill cloaker.

Once they know you'll fight back they lose interest. The only reason they prey on people they know they are easy targets. Anytime someone shows up to afk cloak in our home, we do this... know how many days I've lost to afk cloaking? None.

Stop being a chump.

Not today spaghetti.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#505 - 2015-01-22 17:47:09 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Sexy Cakes wrote:
If people are AFK they can't harm you.
AFK cloaking is fine.
Risk averse pansies too afraid to bait out a blops a gang are the problem.
So, you think a counter drop must sit around 23.5/7 - ready to go at a moment's notice because one guy has put an alt in a system?
How many accounts and resources should we have on gruelling "fun" standby for one guy that sits pretty in a perfectly safe cloak?
Hmmm.... considering how many people can fly bombers for example, how many should be sitting in a few nearby systems all rubbing against each other trying to rat in black ops ships while they try and kill the tedium of waiting?

It is absurd.
Like building a house with a faulty floor and dead bolt from the inside basement. Someone keeps crawling in there, locking themselves in then spearing you from between the floor boards and you have to have to keep dancing around hoping there is enough people that one of them can grab the spear and pull it out of the floor.

Forget it.
I can't even make a good analogy for this. It is such stupid game design. Roll


So here is what you do.

AFK rat until you die to said cloaker to figure out his timezone.

AFK rat in a bait ship in said timezone.

Kill cloaker.

Once they know you'll fight back they lose interest. The only reason they prey on people they know they are easy targets. Anytime someone shows up to afk cloak in our home, we do this... know how many days I've lost to afk cloaking? None.

Stop being a chump.


I was like you once.

*puffs old guy pipe*

Yep, it tried to offer advice to people who can't be arsed to lift a single finger in their own defense but who would rather change the rules of the game to suit them. I don't do that no more, I dun got too old to bash mah head on brick walls.

*still puffing old guy pipe*
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#506 - 2015-01-22 17:54:29 UTC
As has been said before... time, and time, and time, and time, and time again...

AFK or AWAY FROM KEYBOARD Cloaking is not a problem. The PROBLEM is whining.

Carebears too afraid to step out of their stations and play the game by risking the loss of their ships. They see a hostile in local and automatically assume it is a cloak ship. So they hole up in station and complain instead of flying out in force and whooping his tail back to Agrabah. DO NOT CHANGE CLOAKS. Cloaking needs no limiters, no detection spells, no special "make it last longer" potions, no incantations, and does not need to be broken and force all to play the space-ship version of that sorry excuse for a game called World of Warcraft. Cloaking is supposed to be a foolproof method of gathering info.

If ANYTHING... and I mean ANYTHING must be changed about it, then simply slap on a cycle timer. Simple fix for the ONLY "problem" I could see.

To satisfy the whiners, AND to keep cloaking EXACTLY the same way as it is for us veterans who enjoy the ONLY cloak and dagger part of EvE...

Maximum 1 hour cycle timer at level 5 Cloaking skill.

On this I will relent. Because yes, I suppose that AFK cloaking does have some traits that may make it less fun to play...

so here is what we do...

THE ONLY "FIX" FOR CLOAKING:

KEEP CLOAKS EXACTLY AS THEY ARE EXCEPT...

Cloaking Skill Grants a new bonus to Activated Cloak Cycle Timer:
Level 1 - 40 minutes
Level 2 - 45 minutes
Level 3 - 50 minutes
Level 4 - 55 minutes
Level 5 - 60 minutes

END OF STORY.

Cloaking is supposed to be just that... a cloak.

THERE SHOULD NOT BE, a way to scan through it, no complicated super expensive on CCP because they have to program it crap "fix" for a problem that does not even exist.

Use the K.I.S.S.&C principle. Keep It Simple, Stupid, & Cheap...

Simple - Single alteration that does not break cloaks and only changes a very small aspect that makes AFK cloaking impossible but keeps cloaks EXACTLY as useful as they always have been and does not remove local or any other major game changing additions or subtractions.

Stupid - a) Stupid if you try to AFK Cloak, b) makes you look stupid if you are not actively working your cycle timer, and c) is so simple to program even the more stupid of the programming team at CCP can program it.

CHEAP - THE MOST IMPORTANT FOR BOTH CCP AND THE PLAYERS - As long as we play this game we must remember one thing... CCP is a BUSINESS... AND AS SUCH, each time we request some inane change to the game, we are asking for CCP to potentially change their revenue flow (cash flow). When a business must change how their revenue will flow, they must eventually change how much they charge their customers (us the players) so if we ask for them to change something that a LARGE chunk of their customer base likes as is in a manner that takes a large amount of programming or will alienate their more veteran players who have been responsible for many years for keeping their company from falling apart... then we are asking for the price of the game of EVE to go... UP.

So we MUST keep our suggestions in the realm of... Cheap... as in the least amount of work for the highest amount of profit for the CCP corporation. Why should we care? Because the more profit they make, the less expensive the game can be... which of course means that it does not REQUIRE that they raise their prices and thus we can keep playing at the same prices we pay now.

Thus... the simplest fix... is a timer on the duration cycle of the cloak. It does not break cloaks, only makes them slightly more of a pain in the back side to use and completely eliminates the AFK cloaker from the game in about 200 lines of code that will take one team of programmers and checkers about an hour to program maybe.
Haywoud Jablomi
Vay Mining Corporation
#507 - 2015-01-22 17:55:14 UTC
I really dont understand where people get this idea that a cloak ship is harmless and thus should be ignored. We all now this isnt the case. Their potential threat is what causes the issues. Though in itself is not a problem but it can be abused.

A cloak is by far the biggest safety net you can add to a ship.

The idea that without a cloaky camper, the EVE economy would collapse is just insane. There are only a handful of cloak campers as it is and they dont stop industrial operations and never have. Just move a system over is what most people do, since the cloak is unwilling to follow through the gate due to the unsafe nature of it.

My argument why AFK cloaking is an issue is that I see it as a flaw in the cloak. It allows for 100% safety once the destination has been reached. If you read through the thread, no one has suggested modifying cloak so that it makes it harder for that cloak to reach a system. They have however offered suggests and compromises on how to limit the length someone can camp a system to remove that 100% safety net.

There is no valid argument on why a person should be allowed to have this safety. There is no other item in the game that offers this type of protection. Not even an station can offer this, since stations have predictable undocks and you can find where a player is.

And before you jump in and scream "OMG BBQ WTF LOCAL!" Everyone has offered suggestions on how local can be modified, and I think everyone on both sides accepts that it would have to be changed some. I still am not 100% convinced that local is as big a problem as the intel channels. Local only goes one system. The intel goes as far as the alliance and we can all thank Goons, N3, Test, etc etc etc for their dedication to creating huge renter alliances.

If the answer to this is simple. "This is how the game is." That is fine, however this is the F&I forums. This is the place to suggest changes.

The fact that this is one of the single most talked about items on the F&I forums does lead one to think that maybe it should be looked at more closely.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? Yes; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP should be completely avoided" "However if you train cloak, you can avoid it all you want." (Modified)

Iain Cariaba
#508 - 2015-01-22 22:18:11 UTC
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
AFK or AWAY FROM KEYBOARD Cloaking is not a problem. The PROBLEM is whining.

The only part of that post that should've been written.

Haywoud Jablomi wrote:
My argument why AFK cloaking is an issue is that I see it as a flaw in the cloak. It allows for 100% safety once the destination has been reached. If you read through the thread, no one has suggested modifying cloak so that it makes it harder for that cloak to reach a system. They have however offered suggests and compromises on how to limit the length someone can camp a system to remove that 100% safety net.

Sure, it gives you 100% safety while you're cloaked. On the other side, however, it prevents you from doing anything else other than warping around, and only ships with Covert Operations cloaks can do that. In order to do anything, you have to decloak.

The fact that carebears are too risk averse and scared of losing some pixels in a damn video game is not the fault of the cloak, it's entirely a problem with the carebears. The real solutions to a cloaky camper have been repeated, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. (This is not an exageration.) The risk averse don't want to fix cloaky camping. They want to remove it entirely.

I suppose that's inevitably going to happen, unless CCP alters it's recent trend of kowtowing to the risk averse.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#509 - 2015-01-23 00:28:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Sexy Cakes wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Sexy Cakes wrote:
If people are AFK they can't harm you.
AFK cloaking is fine.
Risk averse pansies too afraid to bait out a blops a gang are the problem.
So, you think a counter drop must sit around 23.5/7 - ready to go at a moment's notice because one guy has put an alt in a system?
How many accounts and resources should we have on gruelling "fun" standby for one guy that sits pretty in a perfectly safe cloak?
Hmmm.... considering how many people can fly bombers for example, how many should be sitting in a few nearby systems all rubbing against each other trying to rat in black ops ships while they try and kill the tedium of waiting?

It is absurd.
Like building a house with a faulty floor and dead bolt from the inside basement. Someone keeps crawling in there, locking themselves in then spearing you from between the floor boards and you have to have to keep dancing around hoping there is enough people that one of them can grab the spear and pull it out of the floor.

Forget it.
I can't even make a good analogy for this. It is such stupid game design. Roll


So here is what you do.

AFK rat until you die to said cloaker to figure out his timezone.

AFK rat in a bait ship in said timezone.

Kill cloaker.

Once they know you'll fight back they lose interest. The only reason they prey on people they know they are easy targets. Anytime someone shows up to afk cloak in our home, we do this... know how many days I've lost to afk cloaking? None.

Stop being a chump.


Just this last week, we killed a covert frigate a few times before they could finish the cyno. They moved to a less used system.
Almost immediately, as though it was coordinated, another coalition put a T3 covert AFK blopper into the system.

Now, some T3s have a tank that takes a wheee bit too long to break, so they will probably get the whole blop in ... and this little camper happens to have an alliance that can drop more than we can ever scratch together in a defense or counter drop fleet.

We bank on him not being able to do that most of the time.

However, it is vexing that he can just sit there in perfect safety, watching, waiting and we can do nothing to kick him out of our home. He is in perfect control of when an engagement happens.

Leannor wrote:

Jenn aSide wrote:

I mean, screw the EVE economy that the AFK cloakers actually indirectly help regulate and screw other people playing the game they way they want to. Hell, screw using the tools that ALREADY EXIST (like warp core stabs, target lock breakers, MJDs, Mobile MJDs, Mobil Cyno Inhibitors, Mobile Scan Inhibitors, FoF missiles, energy neutralizers, ECM, ECM drones, ECM bursts, Cynos, Defensive bubbles, friends, alts, friends with alts, alts with friends, etc etc).


Show me the tool that already exists to scan down a cloaked ship? Or even get within range to then use other means to decloak it. Or a means to wear down a cloak so that it becomes not a cloak.

All those things you say above deal with an uncloaked ship.
I think I could start to love you a little.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#510 - 2015-01-23 00:56:59 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

However, it is vexing that he can just sit there in perfect safety, watching, waiting and we can do nothing to kick him out of our home. He is in perfect control of when an engagement happens.


The face of entitlement, ladies and gentlemen.

It is not "your home". EVE belongs to everyone, not just the people who want to farm the AI all day long.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#511 - 2015-01-23 03:36:55 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

However, it is vexing that he can just sit there in perfect safety, watching, waiting and we can do nothing to kick him out of our home. He is in perfect control of when an engagement happens.


The face of entitlement, ladies and gentlemen.

It is not "your home". EVE belongs to everyone, not just the people who want to farm the AI all day long.

I'm sorry, what?
Amy Farrah FowIer
SKULL AND B0NES
#512 - 2015-01-23 03:37:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Amy Farrah FowIer
AFK cloaking problem solved!

1. The problem of "AFK cloker" is - you don't know - are they AFK or active! So real AFK clocker arent a problem. So it is important to introduce a mechanism that shows you - wether he is AFK or active.

2. In my opinion, here should be no way to detect AFK cloaking pilots. Its important to have a chance to go AFK if it is needed and to be safe.

3. In my opinion it is also important to have a safe way to scout or watch active what happened in a system and to be safe.

4. However, there are some reasons to restrict misuse.


Example for misuse:

Logging ten AFK cloaking pilots (or simply one) in, to unsettle, disturb, harass or simply bother maybe hundred of pilots. Do not get me wrong, but maybe hundred of pilots raping every 5 seconds the "descan" - is it fun? Nobody knows if he is at the keyboard or at work.


My proposal:

1. Freeze the screen of the AFK cloaker, after two, three or four minutes have passed without any keyboard using. If a pilot cloaks and simply do nothing, he should not be able to get informations from scanner or something else (twitch-local-livestream ect.). If he comes back (from AFK), he have to unfreeze the screen - 30s delay/waiting period.

2. Any freezed AFK pilot should be highlighted in local with an freeze-icon.


If you want to spy active or trap pilots or watching what happend. Feel free, you can do this like now. But this mechanic should be prevent misuse.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#513 - 2015-01-23 05:05:13 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

However, it is vexing that he can just sit there in perfect safety, watching, waiting and we can do nothing to kick him out of our home. He is in perfect control of when an engagement happens.


The face of entitlement, ladies and gentlemen.

It is not "your home". EVE belongs to everyone, not just the people who want to farm the AI all day long.

I'm sorry, what?


It would be best summed up as #renterproblems.

Basically, the person I quoted would rather be free to farm rats all day long, without ever having to worry about other people.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#514 - 2015-01-23 06:58:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

However, it is vexing that he can just sit there in perfect safety, watching, waiting and we can do nothing to kick him out of our home. He is in perfect control of when an engagement happens.


The face of entitlement, ladies and gentlemen.


Exactly. If it's your home, defend the entries like a wormhole corp does.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#515 - 2015-01-23 08:54:34 UTC
Amy Farrah FowIer wrote:
AFK cloaking problem solved!


2. In my opinion, here should be no way to detect AFK cloaking pilots. Its important to have a chance to go AFK if it is needed and to be safe.


Seriously? That's like saying, it should be ok to log out when attack and have your ship disappear so you don't get attacked. That was why balance was introduced and you don't disappear anymore.

A safe way to go afk, is to dock, or log off. A cloak should not be 'intended' and protected from balance for that reason.

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#516 - 2015-01-23 09:51:32 UTC
Leannor wrote:

A safe way to go afk, is to dock, or log off. A cloak should not be 'intended' and protected from balance for that reason.



That's not why a cloak behaves as it does. It does so because it absolutely hampers your offensive options while it is active.

When I can fire torpedoes through a cloaking device, then you can scan me through one.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#517 - 2015-01-23 10:31:16 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Leannor wrote:

A safe way to go afk, is to dock, or log off. A cloak should not be 'intended' and protected from balance for that reason.



That's not why a cloak behaves as it does. It does so because it absolutely hampers your offensive options while it is active.

When I can fire torpedoes through a cloaking device, then you can scan me through one.



Now, THAT should be possible! A cloak should not, either, be a shield. :)

Sadly, we need to lock to be ble to fire ... another thing which, personally, I think is wrong

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#518 - 2015-01-23 11:03:09 UTC
Leannor wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Leannor wrote:

A safe way to go afk, is to dock, or log off. A cloak should not be 'intended' and protected from balance for that reason.



That's not why a cloak behaves as it does. It does so because it absolutely hampers your offensive options while it is active.

When I can fire torpedoes through a cloaking device, then you can scan me through one.



Now, THAT should be possible! A cloak should not, either, be a shield. :)

Sadly, we need to lock to be ble to fire ... another thing which, personally, I think is wrong


So basically you don't want to play EVE, you want to play Elite: Dangerous. Or some other flight sim.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Aredontis
Doomheim
#519 - 2015-01-23 11:32:39 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Sure, it gives you 100% safety while you're cloaked. On the other side, however, it prevents you from doing anything else other than warping around, and only ships with Covert Operations cloaks can do that. In order to do anything, you have to decloak.


As has been pointed out over, and over - Horseshit! The cloak allows them to gather intel, move around the system, and d-scan the system, providing intel on where others are, you know the same info it prevents others from gathering on them.

Iain Cariaba wrote:
The fact that carebears are too risk averse and scared of losing some pixels in a damn video game is not the fault of the cloak, it's entirely a problem with the carebears.


Please-oh-please wise-one, explain to me how the risk aversion of the cloaky camper is any less than the risk aversion of the pilots who live in the system? The cloaky guy wants 100% safety to gather his intel and prepare for a hot-drop.

To those posts saying (Jenn) "you have ways to protect yourself", I give you 1 "horseshit" as well. The specific deployable that would allow for some protection, the mobile cyno inhibitor, does not affect covert cynos. Perhaps you'd be all for changing that mechanic? After all, there is no logical reason that a cyno jammer shouldn't affect all cynos....
Aredontis
Doomheim
#520 - 2015-01-23 11:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Aredontis
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

However, it is vexing that he can just sit there in perfect safety, watching, waiting and we can do nothing to kick him out of our home. He is in perfect control of when an engagement happens.


The face of entitlement, ladies and gentlemen.

It is not "your home". EVE belongs to everyone, not just the people who want to farm the AI all day long.


umm, no. When "everyone" starts paying the sov bill, then "everyone" can call the system home. Until then, it is their home, as they have paid for it and are defending it. And has already been pointed out, they were defending it.