These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4661 - 2015-12-16 21:42:18 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Jerghul wrote:
I made a big point about you dishonest argument. If you want to show how cheap things are in battleships, then compare with citadels that need an order of magnitude more minerals. Large is the mean.



Except, in terms of the actual market impact, it wasn't dishonest and was, in fact, spot on.

Having had that explained to you, you're now you're trying to pretend like you meant that it will be good for miners for some other nebulous reason that you're struggling to articulate.

In the near future, when it is once again pointed out by, quite literally, everyone else in the thread that your latest position is just as invented and non-representative of the game as your last ill-fated argument, I've little doubt that you will, once more, try to make your position be about something else entirely.

Of course, still lacking any actual experience to draw on, you will once again describe something that only vaguely resembles Eve.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4662 - 2015-12-16 21:51:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerghul
Spot on except off by an order of magnitude. I get that large numbers are abstract, but geeze...

I also think you are underestimating what is going to happen. Citadel give PvE players something to use their minerals on and opens the door to Farmville online for those who choose that playing style. It wont be more that 70% of EvE community. Tops.

Feel free to add me to your watchlist if you want to see when I am online. Assuming you play EvE of course.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4663 - 2015-12-16 21:59:11 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Spot on except off by an order of magnitude. I get that large numbers are abstract, but geeze...

.


No, there is no order of magnitude because most of the parts are already being built in ludicrous quantities that will vastly outstrip demand. It literally does not matter which size structure BPO they are being inserted into. The mineral consumption is attributable to the components, and even under "Free money" building conditions they are utterly inconsequential to the mineral market.

It's like someone took a picture of something next to a quarter for the sake of providing scale and you went, "AH HAH! WHAT ABOUT PUTTING IT NEXT TO A SILVER DOLLAR?!?"

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4664 - 2015-12-16 22:14:08 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Nothing about "priced in" changes what I said about PvE rewards increasing. Which reminds me...I should put in some buy orders for better frostline drops (its not the isk maker tiercide is, but some of the drops are nice buy opportunities).

Sure 0.0001% of pvp events occur exactly as you describe.

Give or take an order of magnitude.

All you are showing is that you do not understand the "pretty big psychological effect" Fozie was speaking of.

Extreme low probability events are nothing to worry about.

The way you make them low probability events is to create a context where a lot of effort is required to bring effective unsolicited pvp to your system.

The way you do that is by denying space to yolo yokels in as wide an area of space you can. They will almost inevitably just hang out in the fringes doing their uber leet reddit ripoffs.

Which means the chore of going of taking sov you do not want today, and the fun destroying citadelles you dont want there tomorrow.

Tears will flow and access denial will suddenly be broken Big smile


WTFAYTA?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4665 - 2015-12-16 22:15:38 UTC
Its like someone saying something only costs a dollar, when actually the mid range unit on sale costs 10.

Snake oil salesman line way of arguing that. Hence dishonest.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4666 - 2015-12-16 22:17:04 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
I made a big point about you dishonest argument.


Except that he was correct. A medium citadel hull uses less minerals than a battleship hull. That you keep insisting he was dishonest calls into question your own honesty.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#4667 - 2015-12-16 22:30:03 UTC
Oh and the citadels are going to be harder to kill and will take longer to remove them as well, so there goes that theory as well...

Wormholer for life.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4668 - 2015-12-16 22:30:46 UTC
A large citadel costs 10 times more, an xlarge 100 times more. His basis for comparison was blatantly dishonest. If I had done the same, you would be all over me claiming I did not know large and xlarge citadels existed or some crap move like that.

Its pretty dishonest of you to cast yourself in a neutral arbitrator stance now that you mention it Teckos.

But way to be off topic. Citadels buff PvE players. Who now get to play more farmville online. Yay. Lets leave it at that.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4669 - 2015-12-16 22:33:07 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Its like someone saying something only costs a dollar, when actually the mid range unit on sale costs 10.

Snake oil salesman line way of arguing that. Hence dishonest.


Wut? Okay, I listed the numbers for minerals for a hyperion and a medium citadel and the hyperion uses more. Quite a bit more. And since there are more than just minerals for a medium citadel…they indeed might cost more, but SurrenderMonkey covered that too.

Seriously, WTFAYTA?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4670 - 2015-12-16 22:37:00 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Oh and the citadels are going to be harder to kill and will take longer to remove them as well, so there goes that theory as well...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshkO8HqQ10

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#4671 - 2015-12-16 22:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Wander Prian
Jerghul wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Oh and the citadels are going to be harder to kill and will take longer to remove them as well, so there goes that theory as well...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshkO8HqQ10



Taking down a POS takes 2 days max. Taking down a citadel: up to a week, 48hrs in W-space

Wormholer for life.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4672 - 2015-12-16 22:48:33 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
A large citadel costs 10 times more, an xlarge 100 times more.



...and all of them are assembled from the same components that are already under massive pre-construction.

What is it about that you struggle to grasp?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4673 - 2015-12-16 22:49:02 UTC
While having some certain guy here on "hide posts" has improved my quality of life considerably, it sadly didn't cure this thread going off the rails.

I take it someone was talking about citadels as some sort of 'base of operations' ?

Did anybody tell him yet you just sit around a pig (OH NO! MORE INVULNERABLE #@$^CLOAKED FAGGOTRY!! Big smile) and that you don't actually use or need a citadel to blops?

Or is the implicit threat of such magnitude we're actually dropping supers now? Damn yokels must be smokin' some heavy crack yo'.

Still not about me.

Fly safe!
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4674 - 2015-12-16 22:49:55 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Wander Prian wrote:
Jerghul wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Oh and the citadels are going to be harder to kill and will take longer to remove them as well, so there goes that theory as well...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshkO8HqQ10



Taking down a POS takes 2 days max. Taking down a citadel: up to a week, 48hrs in W-space


Also amusing: The idea that bashing citadels will be "fun".

The total number of times structure bashing in Eve has been regarded as fun, to date: 0.


Quote:

Did anybody tell him yet you just sit around a pig (OH NO! MORE INVULNERABLE #@$^CLOAKED FAGGOTRY!! Big smile) and that you don't actually use or need a citadel to blops?



Several bodies have told him that. His response can be characterized as, "YES HUH THEY TOTALLY DO!!!1!"

As before, I am assuming this is still based on an understanding of the game mechanics gleaned from one of the novels.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4675 - 2015-12-16 22:53:19 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:

The total number of times structure bashing in Eve has been regarded as fun, to date: 0.


Eyyyy I loved the conga line we did when the last POCO in Sukanen fell before us Cool. Granted, the other 47 were a bit of a bore. We played "cards against humanity" to ease our suffering LOL
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4676 - 2015-12-16 23:11:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerghul
It will be fun because
it causes tears (the lock down on stuff alone...and then the fine:D).
it beats flopping sov you dont want by a mile.
it takes 30 minutes per citadelle before invuln. (3-4 on a alliance roam if the timer is set the way they are usually set)
It pushes yolo yokels and their attendant afk cloaky campers out towards the fringe.

Or, you meet access denial with access denial.

Your idea of a fix will be to try and make citadel bashing boring of course. Because you will win EvE if you can just make it boring enough.

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Mag's
Azn Empire
#4677 - 2015-12-17 00:02:41 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Jerghul wrote:
...stuff...


WTFAYTA?
TBH bud, that can be applied to all his posts. I don't think I've ever seen anyone else here, post so many lies. Some come close, but he's taken the dishonesty award for the year for sure. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#4678 - 2015-12-17 00:13:20 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Two Way Street.

No one but the guy hanging out in space under the cloak is invulnerable.
And everyone else is from him.

Mike Voidstar wrote:
I certainly wasn't, that's why I put my non-combat ship in a dock when hostiles arrived. I am sorry it hurts your feelings when no one wants to play your victim, but going to dock isn't a sign or symptom of invulnerability, it's a sign of defeat and loss mitigation.

Staying in space, and then deciding to go take a nap despite active hunters is invulnerability.

The choice is lose, or lose more. You can't claim no one is defending the space when you hide under a cloak to avoid being evicted by locals in combat ships.
Why would it hurt my feelings? You're not making sense TBH.

Lose or lose more? You actually mean lose ISK p/h with a refit ship, or lose more as in don't rat at all? So it is about your precious ISK p/h?

Oh and I didn't claim anything, but it's nice that you try and put words in my mouth. I'm simply pointing out your argument in regards to invulnerability, is a Two Way Street. No matter how many times you use it. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jerghul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4679 - 2015-12-17 06:30:08 UTC
Mags
Hard to take your level of argumentative dishonesty seriously. Is it a membership criteria to that wan...sorry, mutual appreciation club you are part of?

Blocked list: Teckos, Sonya, Wander, Baltec1
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4680 - 2015-12-17 06:43:33 UTC
Jerghul wrote:
Mags
Hard to take your level of argumentative dishonesty seriously. Is it a membership criteria to that wan...sorry, mutual appreciation club you are part of?


Perhaps you could...oh I don't know...elucidate which parts are dishonest and why....

Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online