Player Features and Ideas Discussion

"By low sec dwellers, are you speaking of the 0,0001% of EvE players that habitually mine and rat in low sec (excluding fraction and intrusion stuff but of course)?"

Did you feel I was off by an order of magnitude?

The yolo yokels that give afk cloaky camping a meaning are not staging from any npc stations in within reach of my part of 0-sec. Nor are they staging from player owned outposts within reach of me.

The only thing that changes with Citadelle is it will be fun to destroy player owned assets instead of the chore it is to subvert sov that is not wanted for keeping.

Its simple friend. Access denial to the use of space is countered by access denial to the use of space.

The only ones that gain are renters. When systems are not at a premium, then the cost of lease should fall. They are after all nice to have as buffer-fillers and afk cloaky magnets (cloaky campers tend to hang out where yolo yokels can support them [though it really is the other way around. the afk cloaks are invariably alts acting in support of whatever the main wants done]).

This is wrong. You don't need local bases to attack null. I have a character that hasn't docked in a station since August, and he's been in null a lot.

Have you ever actually attacked people in null when you didn't live there? I'm guessing not.

This isn't exactly about flaming, it about grabbing your attention. Which did work (I thought) for a different person. I don't suggest mid slots, but instead suggest it own separate sensor slot for a number of reasons. A this can create an idea of ships that are dedicated to sensors, resulting them in having more then one sensor slot. And B, this also means that modules can be created that slightly changes the effect of the sensors, of course those modules will be placed in high mid low slots depending on the desired effect. Delaying local may sound like a good suggestion in theory, but in practice, I don't think it going to have much, if any effect. Local is still there, while yes now delayed, It still providing it all seeing eye. It just takes a few minutes now to bring it attention to you when you first come in.

Finally, I didn't pitch it in first, instead did something drastic, because to be honest. Six years man, six years of this going on. Sure afk cloaking isn't the problem, but-jeeze something must be up don't cha-think to create so many threads in the span of that time? If they do come out with these new comm sats like Tech here said they were, fine, that will help with a great number problems, however as I said before I reserve the right to with hold judgement on something that has yet to come out, as I can't play with a concept, I can't see where and how it might be abused. I can speculate, but that all they are, is speculations based on a concept that not yet finished.

If you move local away from ever displaying names or who there, and make it a purely chat system, then what you can do is make ships design purely for hunting other ships, or monitoring the area for activity. This also means you can add in your fancy dancy "Sonar" ship that can hunt down cloaks. If you make sensors focus on ship activity, instead of who and what faction that player is part of, you can create more uncertainty when it comes to factions attempting to monitor more space then what they can reasonably hold onto. That sudden spike of grav-metric data, is it a neutral fleet of mining barges moving through? Or is it a attack being geared up on one of our posses?

The problem with mechanics as they are is that it possible to make things far safer then what they really should be, it possible to have a near zero risk in sectors like null sec, places that are suppose to be one of the higher risk options

sure, we will go with that. I mean, I don't mind double standards.

SurrenderMonkey pointed specifically to the Medium citadels. His statement was correct. Your response about him being stupid and/or dishonest was wrong.

Okay….let’s try this. What do you mean by “base”. Going to where my alliance holds sov and attacking that? Or do you think I’ll bring some sort of base with me? My idea of a base, if I were to be doing some sort of extended cloaking/PvP/Hunting/etc., assuming I even bring a “base” would be a transport ship like a Crane or Viator a mobile depot, and extra ammo, nanite paste, bubbles, maybe even modules in case something gets burnt out. But that is it. I’d only do that if I planned on being in hostile space for a long, long time. The alt in the transport would generally be offline until I needed to re-supply.

Exactly, speculation and rational expecations tell us that public information like that is very, very quickly incorporated into people’s decision making and thus the price.



Agreed. This information has been out there for quite some time. People have already factored it into their decision making by and large. The only way for citadels to have much impact now would be for a sudden change in mineral requirements. And once the changes are announced the markets will react rather quickly.

Nothing about "priced in" changes what I said about PvE rewards increasing. Which reminds me...I should put in some buy orders for better frostline drops (its not the isk maker tiercide is, but some of the drops are nice buy opportunities).

Sure 0.0001% of pvp events occur exactly as you describe.

Give or take an order of magnitude.

All you are showing is that you do not understand the "pretty big psychological effect" Fozie was speaking of.

Extreme low probability events are nothing to worry about.

The way you make them low probability events is to create a context where a lot of effort is required to bring effective unsolicited pvp to your system.

The way you do that is by denying space to yolo yokels in as wide an area of space you can. They will almost inevitably just hang out in the fringes doing their uber leet reddit ripoffs.

Which means the chore of going of taking sov you do not want today, and the fun destroying citadelles you dont want there tomorrow.

Tears will flow and access denial will suddenly be broken

You did not understand what implicit threat meant. So I learned from Fozie and simplified: "pretty big psychological effect"

Still too many syllables for the argument to compute properly for you?

That you do not recognize mechanics and play-styles does not mean they do not exist. It just means you are oblivious to them. Eve can be played at many levels. Understanding is not required. That is why God invented the F1 button.

Yolo yokels...uhm, I could try to translate that to stupid if you like.

I made a big point about you dishonest argument. If you want to show how cheap things are in battleships, then compare with citadels that need an order of magnitude more minerals. Large is the mean.

Edit
Yah, I get that you struggle. How can a flea understand the dog? Still, EvE can be understood at many levels. Feel free to understand it at your own pace.

EditII
I pointed out a while back that the converse is actually true. AFK cloakers are almost invariably alts doing something the main character sees the benefit of being done. Like waiting for a target of opportunity the cloak fit ship can tackle for a few seconds until the yolo yokels can jump in. Its not very sophisticated.