Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Cloaks are fine (Fozielaw).

"It's not the cloak you are afraid of, it's the people coming after him"

Well, yah. Or rather afraid of the potential that it could happen, and in particular the potential that it could happen in a way that makes the pilot caught look stupid.

That is the "pretty big psychological effect" we are looking at

Edit
It could possibly be that no-local widens the scope for losing a ship without looking like an idiot no matter the cause. So it may after all have a slight effect on lowering the "pretty big psychological effect".

Teckos
I am also not the one struggling with non-linear logic. You are. Hence your small army of pretty puny straw men.

To rehash yet again.

I am just looking at what wormhole mechanisms that reduce a pretty big psychological effect might look like in nullsec.

I am not making an impact study beyond that stated objective.

Oh I agree. So far the mental gymnastics you have performed, to fudge the issue and ignore local as being what Fozzie (with two Zs) was actually talking about, is quite amazing.

Completely none linear, but utterly clueless and illogical never the less.

Please, do carry on with this one man show that's not about you.

So, I take it there are no objections then? Onward to point 4.

I'll rehash it plain and simple this time, so that your feeble minds can grasp the basic concepts contained within: to counter the implicit threat aka the "big psychological impact" of the game, it is important to realise it's not about you. Despite being an invested stakeholder I want to point out it's still not about me either. Because Fozzie.

Thank you for your constructive input. Onward to point 5!

Well no. See, what this all revolves around is ATK play. Wander and his guys worry about a gang coming in. This is true in NS as well. If a gang of 30+ dudes come in…that’s a problem, especially if you don’t see them coming. Not seeing them coming is much more of a Thing™ in w-space (if I have understood Wander and Morrigan correctly). Why? Because their intel network is much, much more limited. Why is their intel much, much more limited? Could it be…no local? No local is, for w-space the “pretty big psychological effect”. Cloaks? Not at all. Why? Also because of no local. The effectiveness of cloaks is due in large part to local. Local always shows the pilot as there irrespective of their keyboard status. Once at a safe spot and cloaked, they can have the “pretty big psychological effect”.

However, it is not impossible to deal with. Again, the list:

1. Move over a system.
2. Rat in a group.
3. Find out when the guy is most likely to be ATK.

All of these things can “reduce” that “pretty big psychological effect”.

Further, if we are going to either change cloaks (make them scannable) or change local (make it delayed chat) then the other must change as well to preserve balance. While some here, whose reading ability is seriously gimped, might cry that removing local increases the “implicit threat” this person is forgetting that there is going to also be a way to….wait for it…wait….scan for cloaked ships. In this case, AFK cloaking is dead. Local as a source of intel is dead. Further, intel will move into a POS (Player Owned Structure) and will be vulnerable. Now players can manage their own risk (I’m done with the stupid “implicit threat”, WTF are we using “implicit threat” when the word risk is more than sufficient?). Which is the way it should be. Players mitigating their own risk…doing stuff, interacting, creating opportunities for having fun.

Having CCP come out and hold your hand while you PvE should never be the solution.

Yeh - "Standing Fleet" is what it's called, and comms indeed go without saying.

So it is indeed very unlikely a cloaker jumps on you and there's nobody in a 5 system radius to help you out? That'd be my assessment as well: you need to be close to each other. If there's nobody within 5 jumps and you're not carrying a cyno yourself, you are in effect "solo"...

I already thought as much, but I wasn't sure how different NPC null and sov null were in that regard. Thanks for sharing.

You are incidentally doing nullsec wrong if you are ratting or mining at peak times.

Hmm.. Weird.. We usually have people on comms and in fleet if they are down the chain doing something. Solo-stuff is another story of course

This is another fundamental disconnect...

You have to be afk to be caught unawares... Meaning that you should not be caught out in a non-combat ship when the neighbors come visiting?

Because that's what's being complained about. We put away the soft targets when they are under direct threat. Either it's ok that we do that, or it's not.

In fact, it would be integral to defending your space. It's like cleaning up the kitchen so you don't get ants. If it's both ok, and expected....nigh unto required by those interested in actually defending space...

How then does it cecome reasonable that there be no counter to having a cloaked hostile roaming your space and forcing that defensive response?

Move over? That's abandoning the space. Fleet? Sure, but it's not always an option and we are speaking of an enduring situation where one ship threatens you from unbreakable safety at all times. Fly stupid- Its ok to hunt me but not for me to hunt thee?

The counter most used is trying to burn space to the ground in as wide an enclave as you can project. Its not about holding space, its about denying it to anyone else because they could potentially stage cyno attacks from space.

Its not about wanting what people have. Its wanting them out. Either you join the alliance, or you leave. No middle ground for neutral parties.

This counter will of course become quite effective with the new citadelles. There will really be nice things to burn to cordon off space.

Because "big psychological effect" can be cleansed with fire.

=========

Standing defensive fleets are not a good idea in peak times. Thats when pilots should be involved in pvp, not sitting around waiting on the off-chance some afk cloaker will do something while everyone is waiting around for it to happen.

Its ok for off-times. The last ship I lost was from me moving from ratting to defending a miner who got caught a few jumps away. A good fight. I ran out of cap charges in the end. The ship was my ratting ship btw. The net isk loss from losing it was in the single digit millions.