Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is my local right now. I highlighted the relevant part.

That's a LOT of people showing in local if we're all logged off, playing another game.

mmmkay - thanks for setting the record straight on that one. I hear ya. That was in fact the whole reason I was in here in the first place too; although after a lot of bickering and squabbeling I find it easier said than done .... lots of ins and outs ye dig, like... bummer man. We got ourselves a real downer but lemme tell you how comes - in my humble opinion of course.

The problem is that Recons are in fact TOO visible. They're supposed to be these stealthy up-yours craft and local chat is kinda giving them away. If everything was working properly you wouldn't even know they were there in the first place and THEN you've got stealth as intended.

Once that's done, only then you can start thinking about ships to flush out the submarines. Or Observatory Arrays. If anything's broken at this point, it is as a matter of fact this annoying local channel giving away intel you shouldn't have had in the first place. Don't know if that makes sense to you, but that's how after all is said and done, local DOES tie into the cloaking device.

Of course you don't have to agree, but that's how I have come to approach it. Now obviously, tampering with local (like delaying it and only showing ships that have been uncloaked for the last 10 seconds) is a massive boost to predatory playstyles. You'd still pick up non-cloaked ships on DScan (except recons) ; but without local giving them away you'd have to rely on other means. And that's when we could get Submarine hunters, Observatory Scans, Probes, Sonars, TheHellDoIKnow devices.

I guess what I'm trying to say is ... cloaks are balanced as they are, but the net result leaves a little to be desired. So, it's not a matter of buffing or nerfing but really changing the whole package at once. One cannot simply make cloaks detectable without making them properly invisible first.

Some uses may bite the dust after all: all non-covops cloaks for example running into a gatecamp would be royally suckered because you KNOW they're there (you've seen them cloak up) and you KNOW they couldn't have gone far. I suppose given the circumstances, that's fair play so in some instances, your cloak would no longer be able to protect you forever. But IF you manage to move unseen, at least local chat would no longer draw attention all the time - like shouting "LOOK! There's a guy in here which you're not supposed to see!"

It would definitely change the game, though probably for the better. That's pretty much my two cents on the subject.

And because you're a selfish, dishonest carebear, you can't figure out why cloaks don't have much chance of you interrupting them.

It is because:

They have no ACTUAL effect, only an imaginary one. They can very literally do nothing while cloaked. (Meanwhile the carebear can in fact generate resources afk, which condemns him above all others)

Cloaks are SUPPOSED to act like that. They are very deliberately supposed to give the player using them the ability to attack targets of opportunity. They are supposed to reward patience with more agency in decision making than the person not using a cloak. If they didn't, they would be utterly worthless, a penalty in and of themselves to even be able to use cov ops cloaks. (which is of course what you want, you want it broken in your favor instead of balanced. You hate balance, every carebear does)

And lastly, because you have NO RIGHT to feel secure in nullsec space, ever. Cloaking devices play their part in that. You are supposed to have uncertainty, risk, and feel the influence of literally anyone with the wherewithal to do something about it. (And if, as you both have claimed repeatedly, you would rather be in highsec than actually play the game with risk, then your ass does not belong in nullsec at all)




Hell, you're on record as saying that it's unreasonable to have a web alt escorting a freighter. You "feel" (**** your feelings by the way, feels are not reals) that ANY action taken in self defense is unreasonable.



That's when it should be happening the most. Especially in nullsec.




What you mean is, "I should be able to have zero interference, risk or uncertainty whatsoever."

No. You get to deal with it, like so many others are these days with the tools that already exist. You don't get a new mechanic just because you're too lazy to use the ones that already exist.

This is exactly like the freighter thread. Carebears are too lazy and entitled to actually play the game like everyone else, so you pout, whine and cry for an overpowered mechanic, to just push one button and be perfectly safe forever. Hell, you straight up ******* told me that "being awake" is significant effort according to you. Goddamned pathetic.

The developers see things the way I do.

The problem is not with cloaks, but rather how cloaks are used to create enduring implicit threats.

The solution is of course to shake things up.

Removing local is not a solution, it is a possible consequence of nerfing implicit threats.

Look to wormhole space to see how implicit threats can be nerfed by various mechanisms.

The nerfed implicit threat in null-sec is the reason why no local works, and why afk cloaky campers do not worry anyone.

Much as I am sure wormhole denizens like to think it is a question of their superior moral fibre

Ahhh the old unsubstantiated claim again.

Lets see, there was a lot of fluff in your post...

Its fine that you do not buy the premise, its also fine that you do not care that winter is coming. I am mostly please with having recognized what the Dev's are up to, and what mechanisms in wormhole space might be coming to null-sec a winter sometime soon.

They seem to recognize the problem I do, and are working towards resolving it.

But be sure of one thing: Local is not the fix. It merely is something that can be removed (or more likely can be turned on and off using entosis links) as a consequence of mirroring other wormhole mechanisms in 0-sec.

You mean like how they listened to players like you and “fixed” freighters…only to make them worse? Okay, works for me.

It is pretty clear to me the Dev’s are going to zap local into delayed chat. Intel will move into a structure in space allowing players to “claw back” to something like local…but it will also be vulnerable to attack possibly subversion. Cloaks will become scannable…and enduring implicit threats will still be there. Now it will be hostiles turning off your intel and leaving you completely in the dark until you find your spine and undock and fix the problem.

It wasn't the enduring implicit threat part that was the problem. It was the fact that it was stifling NS, and was leading to pretty much one method of fighting. CCP has had a long track record of changing things when one way of doing things becomes the default. Drone assist. Nano/speed fit HACs (heck I even say a nano-Domi fit, don't know if it ever made it of the drawing board, nano gangs were quite popular). To name just two.

To expand on the jump drive problem it allowed for groups of players to hold huge amounts of space, much of which they didn't even really use. Coalitions could do this because they could move capital and super-capital fleets around very rapidly and over vast distances. It wasn’t the threat capitals and super capitals posed in terms of hot dropping some idiot ratting in a carrier. CCP almost surely has no problem is some bozo ratting in a carrier gets zapped. But a stagnant NS where the primary power blocks tacitly agreed to not **** in each other’s cheerios except in certain regions was leading to a rather boring NS. Boredom is probably the biggest source of “player attrition.”

I hear that a lot... But I have never said any such thing.

What I have said is that the counters are unreasonable when they drop profit below the levels of mid to high end high sec rates. That's not a min/max argument. There is definitely room between high sec rates and null sec rates that you could compromise a fit to handle, and if I were so inclined I am one who would not change my fit much, if at all... But not everyone has the ability to do that, nor does all content allow for it.

However, with each additional dedicated guard pilot that could have been easily making profit in high sec at a much greater margin of safety, you divide the profits being made in null and quickly drop below reasonable levels.

Which would be fine- that is PvE driving conflict as intended. The problem is that you cannot contest the enemy doing that to you. If it were balanced you would have the option of gambling on his catching you while you do your thing, or confronting him and gambling that you can take him. At no point should he be able to force you to a disadvantaged position without being himself at risk.

The same holds true of the rest of your bleating about stuff being broken just because it now has risk. Somehow you honestly believe that scouts should have carte blanche to run around with no danger of being caught. You believe that a hunted and cornered super cap should just be able to cloak up and wait out his pursuit. You think that just because it puts all these needed functions for the operation of your fleet at risk of disruption that it simply should not be allowed...

And I cal BS.

Those functions should be at risk of enemy action, just as his would now be at risk of your own. Your super cap should die if you can't bring it support or get it to safety. Scouting should be a risky endeavor, and never so safe that you can do it with one hand up your wife's tender bits.

Cloaks are too safe by a large margin. I would think making them safer at choke points in exchange for not being 100% risk free thereafter is a vital and needed adjustment to them.

The so called safety of locals operating PvE when no one is around has nothing to do with it. They aren't safe, they are simply not currently under attack. Picking your time is part of the equation.

Alundi et al.

Here's the thing. Being taken seriously by you et al. is not relevant.

Its relevant that the Devs know enduring implicit threats are a thing that increases player attrition.

And they know that.

Goodness you people waste time and perfectly good letters on things that do not matter.