Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I have skimmed past the same people arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin The result is play denial. You hang a threat over the locals of hot dropping a gang or fleet on them that will bat them right out of the ball park. So, they usually up ship and change systems, pilots, type of space they fly in or games until the coast is clear.

Even when you bait an AFK cloaker out and kill them ... why the next time your group population drops low due to time zones, there they are again in a new ship.

Why is AFK cloaking so popular? Because it can be so perfectly effective. Wait for the perfect time, slam the enemy when they have nothing and no time to respond, then disappear again.

They should not have a perfectly safe way to wait around for the perfect time to strike.

The insanity of this statement is that it's not safe. There are plenty of current kills on zkillboard that shows people that have been caught while ratting, mining, scanning, etc etc.

But even if you ignore that. It has been suggested several times on this thread and others that local be modified in exchange for how cloak functions.

And ratting with the perfect safety net that is local intel will have no counter to it.

While we are at it, I guess you also think we should be able to force AFK players in stations to undock too as they are doing the exact same thing as an AFK cloaker.

Every single player that's ever been caught ratting or mining is inept? No.

Sorry, but not everyone that is caught ratting in null does so because they make a mistake; it's still entirely possible for players to be caught even if they're doing everything right and react appropriately, despite local. You can't escape that fact. No matter how much spin you try to put on this you can't. Kills still happen, not everyone who gets caught is a scrub with a poorly fit ship.



Actually, all you did was try to show how my argument could also be used to prove an alternative point and failed in doing so by poorly choosing what you believed to be an analagous situation, except that one condition can actually be shown to be the case with evidence and one can't. That's also there for everyone to read. Moreover, you also tried to use the same argument to show that only the inept were the ones who were caught, which is also a failure, because, again, for the thousandth time, a little theorycraft, application, in game experience, and evidence compiled from KB stats shows us *yet again* that it is 100% possible to catch a player that does everything right.

This horse is so beaten that there's only glue left at this point. You like afk cloaking. I get it. You don't like local. That's fine too But stop making stuff up. Stop. Making these ridiculous statements is a poison in this forum, and it's rampant in this subforum in particular. There's a clade of about ten posters here, which is by far not the majority (and I'm not advocating mob rule in case you were wondering), that turn the volume to ten at the first sign of dissent in an attempt to either intellectually corner their opponent or just shout them down.

Saying something like "when an afk cloaker is afk what mechanic is he using to interact with you?' or "local is a perfect intel tool" is insane. It sounds crazy when you read it out loud and it's borderline nonsense. Local is perfect? Really? Really? Does it tell you anything about the intent of a player entering your system? Does it tell you what ships they're flying or how many people are likely to be ready to back them up? Does it tell you if they have a cyno, but that they forgot their ozone? Stop making this crap up. If you have a real argument then make it. Some of the more moderate things that people have said were along the lines of 'local never fails to report the presence of a neutral player.' Fair enough, but it doesn't take the illogical and extreme step of calling it (and not even in a hyperbolic fashion) perfect. If you've got something that makes sense to say, then say it. Otherwise, shut up, because people like me are sick of fending off your ridiculous bull to even begin to get at the heart of the argument.

Shows up in local, everything scatters



If they don't have a POS they fit them.


Not only does just about every POS come armed but ratting POS also tend to sport bubbles around them. You never warp blind to a POS.


Still takes far longer to get to an anom than for the ishtar to warp off.

I've often wondered what the effect would be if immediate mode local chat were an optional POS module tied to sov strategic level, like cynosural jammers and jump bridges.

Say, all NPC space is immediate mode local. That would leave only claimable sov and w-space as delayed mode by default, with claimable sov upgradable to immediate mode.

Sov strategic index levels 4 and 5 have no uses iirc.

AFK cloaking is no different to being afk in station or afk in a pos. Keep them all as they are or nerf them all.

Cloaking in general is a counter to local, keep them both as they are or nerf them both.

Nerf Afk cloaking specifically or cloaking in general without nerfing these other things and it will just kill the game even more.

It is all well and good to diminish the impact a cloaked player can have, by making the cloak high maintenance.

Has it occurred to you that the cloak is part of a balanced play environment, and your recommendation by itself would tip the scales towards the other side?

This is false in every sense. POS can be destroyed. A station can change hands, reinforced or taken. Though you cant eject the player, you always know where they are, and if they undock you know exactly where they will be.

None of these are true with a "AFK cloaker". As I said a few posts ago. They can stay cloaked safely in a system with minimal effort till the EVE servers are closed.

Also Nikk. I find it interesting that your advocating for cloak is based around the idea of hunting PVE ships. Wouldnt this place you in the exact same place place you claim PVE players are in, where you are looking for safety in your actions? Not that wanting to hunt PVE ships is bad. It's actually well and good. I just find it interesting.

1
A POS can be destroyed. The ships within it can leave before this event.
An Outpost can be taken. The ships within it can leave, but can also stay.
Also, like a cloaked ship, you don't know when they will be trying to move or leave. It has been established that there is no expectation that players will maintain watch, as the demands of such are above and beyond the needs of most gaming.

2
The AFK cloaker is fully exposed to risk at the same time they become capable of hostile action.
In fact, many ships have built in delays forced upon them in exchange for this cloaking ability, which gives their opponents extra time to react with. The few ships which have no such delays, are balanced to not be overwhelming when attacking in exchange.

3
Of course, in this context, the thrust of cloaking is quite specific to hunting PvE ships.
PvE ships within friendly sov have precious few threats which are not managed out of significance, short of these cloaking threats.
Why should my mining barge be unable to deal with problems, and need to seek shelter?
Why should the cloaked ship be unable to reach the PvE ship, as well as not be capable of handling the ships which show up to attempt removing it?
That sounds like pre-planned frustration for everyone involved.