Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Geez, 174 pages and people still whining over AFK Cloakers?

AFK cloaker in system means I'm just watching d-scan more often.

Not at all one sided. My current stance has come from a long and hard argued discussion, largely with Teckos. *If* you had actually bothered reading that discussion, you would know that one of the goals of a balanced solution was to have minimal (preferably zero) impact on other uses of cloaked ships besides the afk camp 'hunting'.

Thus while I agreed long ago with other posters, like Nikk, that the bulk of the issue comes from the combination of cloaks and cynos, and making them mutually exclusive on a given hull would alliviate most of the issue, it removes one of the key features of the black ops line (covert cynos), and there are plenty of tactical uses for those other than hotdropping sleepy miners too frustrated by invulnerable hostiles to care about living anymore.

This is also why I am against such things as timers or fuel. Any timer longer than 15 minutes is too long to wait for a chance at maybe catching a camper, and 15 minutes would be too short for nearly any other purpose. Likewise fuel would either make no difference or be too much of a logistic burden on using cloaks.

The current proposal that we compromised on was to make a cov-ops(either a new one of similar power, or just the same ones we have now) hull able to fit a scanner capable of locating cloaked ships, but the system also generates false positives. So you can hunt them, and an active cloaked ship will see this activity and move. As false positives are removed eventually the ship will get unlucky and find itself discovered and if it does not stay mobile will be confronted. This was amplified by the idea that observatory arrays would automatically track unknown signitures, which would reveal a cloaked ship as one that was moving over time, or else one older than an unknown Sig would last- either option being something a moderately aware cloaked could compensate for simply by cycling the cloak so he registers as a new unknown contact, and does not move around much.

You must not even have read the post you quoted. Ah well, I suppose honest discussion and an end to trolling was too much to hope for.

Your definition of good being something that mindlessly agrees with your position without any regard to balance, intelligence, or compromise? Yeah, that wasn't going to happen.

Then you should have no issue discussing the subject instead of attacking me.

Claiming things I didn't say isn't holding a conversation.

No, making cloaks huntable would not reander cloaked useless for the things they are used for.

Your stance only works if we consider that the status quo is balanced... And it isn't.

No ship in space should be 100% safe. A cloaked ship is 100% safe anytime it chooses to be. That is in the face of unlimited effort and manhours to hunt that ship. On that score alone cloaks are hilariously OP.

The ships you want to hunt are only safe in the absence of a hunter. That is a circumstance completely out of control of the pilot of the ships you want to hunt. That they don't stay in space when there is danger near is irrelevant. If they leave the space, you won. If they continue to suffer financial loss because they won't put a ship that cannot survive a fight in space with hostiles, you are inflicting damages on them from a 100% unassailable position.

Other uses of cloaked ships are minimally, if at all affected by a system with false positives. Far from being rendered 'useless' as you claim. Such a pilot may have to occasionally reposition if hunters get close, or even deal with a confrontation from hostiles is neither unreasonable nor unbalanced. What is impacted are those that want to stay afk for extended periods of time.

Feel free to educate me on exactly why a cloaked ship, in exception of every single other asset in space, is balanced being 100% safe for as long as it wants. This is exactly what you are claiming the issue with a PvE ship which actually does face danger and has to flee... But somehow it's ok if it's the hunter?

You still aren't answering the question of why it's ok for a cloaked ship to be 100% safe while in space, unlike litterally any other player owned asset.

Just being unable to make isk is irrelevant. You are still an effective hunter and you have a clear, measurable impact on the space where you set up your camp.

What makes you so special that you can inflict harm on the operations of an enemy for as long as you like from a 100% safe position in enemy space, with active effort spent hunting you being completely impossible?

Because it's impossible to earn isk or harm someone when cloaked. I've said that a dozen times already.



As does someone who is docked in station with you, in a neighboring system, logged off and watching with an alt, etc. Should we nerf those things too?



I can't inflict harm on anyone from a 100% safe position. I've never killed anyone when my cloak is active. No one has.

I will ask you again (you haven't answered yet) how many people have killed anyone while their cloak is active? Give me a hard number.

Brother...this again....that's my Mike...always trying to make the game safer and less dangerous.

A guy in a POS or station would likely have similar effects. Hell, in sov space I can't tell if a guy is docked or cloaked.

Clearly an unintended effect from the Devs...so stations have to be nerfed....we need an eject mechanic.

I honestly don't understand how anyone can support the double standard of saying it's ok to be 100% safe from being hunted so long as you yourself are hunting other people who are only safe if you are not hunting them.

Haulers and miners are the most vulnerable ships in the game, of course you don't leave them out and operating normally in the presence of hostiles. To think otherwise is idiotic. Ratters are at a severe tactical disadvantage since everything about them is known just by knowing what the local npcs are like.

No one looks to engage in a fight they will lose. You are perfectly fine with the idea of non-consensual PvP just so long as you are the one picking the fight you know you will win. Somehow it's ok if you are invulnerable with no effort, but it's not ok if your enemy protects himself by remaining awake and aware, minimizing the inevitable time spent under rat scram, staying aligned and clear of navigation difficulties, etc...