Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Why?

The problem there is that it effectively does nothing, while harming a cloaks ability to cloak.

Don't get me wrong, I think the module is far too powerful so long as it remains as it is. However, adding a passive timer to it does nothing if the timer is too long.

IMO, anything longer than about 15 minutes is too long. The affect of a cloaked camp is to effectively end all reasonable PVE activity in the area until the camp is cleared or conditions exist that make continuing with that activity profitable again. Waiting out a timer to get only the chance to engage the enemy cutting the profits of your space in half is neither active nor fun for either side, and if it's too long no one will bother looking for camps which leaves us right where we are now. If it's too short you render the module useless for any other purpose as well.

Timers not influenced by outside activity of your enemies are not a good idea.

Now if a long timer did exist, and there were ways of putting pressure on the solar system to speed those timers up so that at maximum effect a cloak could stay active only about 5 minutes, giving them a chance to escape the area, that would be more reasonable. Whatever mechanism speeds up the timer should involve one or more active pilots, and some form of resource or other limit so that it cannot be left active at all times.

In that scenario the cloaked pilot can see the activity and has a chance to react. Defenders have to pick and choose which systems are worth clearing this way. The goal at all times should default to active play defeating passive play, and any ship in space being able to be challenged for the right to keep floating there.

Actually, for the most part, we still do agree on key points.

I am approaching this from a new direction, instead.

Lets say cloaking is more involved.
They already have pushed against station games, and bobbing into and out of POS shields while controlling drones and fighters, so why not tweak this side more?

If we prioritize the cloaks AFK supporting aspect, as well as its stealth, then the answer becomes more clear.

Decloaking should take MORE time, representing gradually shifting power back into normal systems that were otherwise locked out during cloaking itself.

The ship, if on grid, should appear a minimum of XX seconds before it can be active. (Say 30, as a rough example)
(This was whittled down in the past to demonstrate how bonuses from skilled cloak use could help, but non-skilled cloak use should still be that much worse)

Non covert cloaks should be penalized more than covert, but in most ways this is already present.

This shifts the value of local showing ALL players in reverse, as you would want it to alert you when they started decloaking, more than knowing they were simply present.

As a source of intel, I want to prioritize knowing about imminent threats, even if I no longer perceive the potential ones.
A docked or cloaked ship would be nice to know about, but neither should be confused with a clear and present danger.
Not if we want better gameplay.

Maximizing profit isn't a goal. Having fun is.

There is no such thing as a PvE guy. You consent to PvP when you undock. If you can't afford to have defense fleets set up to protect yourself, stay in HS, and change systems when someone you don't know shows up.

As long as you cover the cost of ammo you are profitable. What are you even talking about?

You consent to PvP when you undock. Certain activities are more PvE, but there is no such thing as pure PvE in EVE.

You talk again and again about profitability. You can fly solo roaming in null/WHs and be profitable. I know. I've done it. Stop complaining already.

Time vs. Value. We don't all enjoy the same things. To you, perhaps making a few ISK over the price of undocking is sufficient, because you like shooting people in the face and that's where your game begins and ends.

For the average PVE player, PvP may be unavoidable but it's not why we play or what we enjoy. It factors into the cost of doing what we do enjoy. High sec is supposed to be the least profit with least risk. That puts the floor on null profitability somewhere in the high end of high sec profits. Cloaked camps break that because as soon as you have to split the profits among multiple characters to make operating successfully worth less than just going to high sec.

You may just want to shoot people in the face, but if you render it pointless to be available to target then you deserve to have a hard time catching targets.

As soon as I enter any system where I clearly do not belong, people scramble to get back to their pos bubbles. I should just roll an army of cloaky cyno alts and seed them all over a region. I'll sell my service to any group that wants to shut down opposition pve region wide.
You don't know if I'm watching your system, the system 5 jumps out, all of the systems, or if I'm just yanking it to some hawt hawt badlyphotoshoppedmichaelcera posts on imgur. Doesn't matter. I could be right next to you ready to web-scram, light a candle, and drop a 20 man wrecking crew on your precious ratting thanny.
Every time you look at local chat, there I am. Haunting your safe space like some s*!(#lording oppressor. Don't bother renewing your subscruption at the end of the month.

Or, you could just recognize that that is the eve equivalent of a paranoid meth-fueled tweaker fantasy, and that the neutral in local is probably not fit to do more than 400ish dps. If he is even at the keyboard at all.
Seriously though, Local chat shouldn't be as good as it is. Maybe make it an anonymous list or something, I dunno.
Don't swim alone.

No. Especially fuel/cap usage, or let me shoot you while cloaked.

It is a *you consent to PvP when undocking* sandbox. Which you are incapable of understanding.

The floor on profitability is replacing the ammo it takes to shoot rats. You have no business in null if you aren't able to defend yourself. As designed. The counter to cloaked campers is a defense fleet. Null is designed to be collaborative. Flying solo doing PvE in null has never been something that should exist.

Yes, yes if you aren't able to have a standing defense fleet you should go back to highsec. You can't have your cake and eat it to, mike. Working as designed.

The amount of whining you do to try and have max profit from null with none of the drawbacks/downsides of having to defend your space is astounding. I do enjoy seeing the mental gymnastics you have to go through to defend yourself, though

Renter krabs and highseccers still the main voice of complaint against cloaky warfare. Your uncreativity in how to deal with your own defense is staggering.

There's literally no point. It's been explained and re-explained to you guys time and time again. You just choose to ignore it. If they're AFK they can't harm you, if they're active, they're playing the game. Plenty of people are krabbing just fine throughout 0.0, you guys are just incapable of adapting like they have. Go to highsec.