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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#301 - 2015-01-16 19:55:41 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Sure, null sec is dangerous, UNLESS you are even in your own claimed space.
What are the current solutions?

1) Wait with a counter drop 23/7 and try catch them when they drop
(No sane person is going to sit on 100% ready status to jump at a moment all day long)
2) Camp every gate into your region, all the time with a perfect composition.
(Gate camping is as boring as mining and often less rewarding)

Meanwhile, the AFK cloaker sits in perfect safety picking and choosing choice targets. They are better off than in a station because they can fly to various points and can D-scan.

First, the difference between being in your own claimed space, and being in other null space, is truly significant.
All things here are not equal.

1. You only need to adapt your tactics.
Forget PvE grinding for hours on end, work in bursts. 30 minutes at max.
THIS will train them to react over the short term, or they realize they will miss the opportunity to attack you.
Either:
A. fit to evade
and / or
B. Forget counter drops, remember that unless they brought the titan or BLOPs with them, they have to slow boat back home.
Have a group on standby within fast burn range to catch the attackers. Keep in mind, it doesn't matter if they catch you, so long as their net loss exceeds yours. You WANT them using a covert cyno, so those attacking ships are all floating ISK sinks, waiting to become more impressive kill-mails than the one from you they might take home.

2. Perfect gate camping...
If your corp or alliance can pull it off, then this would secure your space against everything, exceeding the need of most situations.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Eryn Velasquez
#302 - 2015-01-16 20:06:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Eryn Velasquez
There once was a thingy called "SYSTEM SCANNING ARRAY", the description now says it`s useless.

Reactivate it. Anchorable at a POS, consuming fuel (heavy water, stront ...), visible when activated like a cyno.
Give it a cooldowntime of 3 or 4 hours, manual activation by a POS-gunner.
After activation, all ships in the system are scannable for 5 minutes.

If the camper is at the keyboard, no problem for him to warp around for the 5 minutes, if not he get's grilled.

Would even be nice in wormholes.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#303 - 2015-01-16 20:12:55 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
There once was a thingy called "SYSTEM SCANNING ARRAY", the description now says it`s useless.

Reactivate it. Anchorable at a POS, consuming fuel (heavy water, stront ...), visible when activated like a cyno.
Give it a cooldowntime of 3 or 4 hours, manual activation by a POS-gunner.
After activation, all ships in the system are scannable for 5 minutes.

If the camper is at the keyboard, no problem for him to warp around for the 5 minutes, if not he get's grilled.

Would even be nice in wormholes.

Wormholes would want no part in this, I feel safe in saying.

Since you did not describe a benefit to cloaked play alongside this, why are we giving Null PvE a buff with this?

It's kind of a no-brainer that null PvE can avoid most other hostiles, using the local warning system.
Why do we want to nerf the one play style that can counter this immunity?

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#304 - 2015-01-16 20:30:10 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

I advocate the idea of a SOV structure that can online for a few hours but also takes a few hours to cool down after that, which wipes out cloaks.

The fact that most want it to be a SOV structure should be a huge indicator that this is less of a balance problem and more like carebears being in null sec. Nullbears

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#305 - 2015-01-16 20:45:33 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
There once was a thingy called "SYSTEM SCANNING ARRAY", the description now says it`s useless.

Reactivate it. Anchorable at a POS, consuming fuel (heavy water, stront ...), visible when activated like a cyno.
Give it a cooldowntime of 3 or 4 hours, manual activation by a POS-gunner.
After activation, all ships in the system are scannable for 5 minutes.

If the camper is at the keyboard, no problem for him to warp around for the 5 minutes, if not he get's grilled.

Would even be nice in wormholes.


Some people are really stupid. No we would not like this in Wspace

the difference between an AFK cloaker in W-space and K-space is that in K-space you see him in local. In W-space this in considered normal and is accepted. In K-space everyone Flips their **** whenever it occurs. The difference is that you know he is there and is still there. Sure he can have a cyno but if you are in bridging range of a titan in hostile space you should expect this to happen. If its a Blops cyno well then bitching about is pointless as thats what a blops does, go behind enemy lines and kill stuff in places they think are safe.

I have in past taken part in what is considered AFK Cloaking except I was not AFK. I sat and watched a Capital in a POS for hours until it decided to warp to a place in system where I could tackle it. I was patient and waited. If I had gone AFK properly then quite frankly I would of missed the kill.

Its your mentality that there is a potential threat you cannot deal with dispite the fact the power to either deal with or mitigate that threat is in your hands. Its just you don't get an I win make everything safe button that you seem to think you entitled to

So Much Space
Eryn Velasquez
#306 - 2015-01-16 20:46:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Eryn Velasquez
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

I advocate the idea of a SOV structure that can online for a few hours but also takes a few hours to cool down after that, which wipes out cloaks.

The fact that most want it to be a SOV structure should be a huge indicator that this is less of a balance problem and more like carebears being in null sec. Nullbears


I think, that the playstyle of a riskfree permacloaked cynoalt is carebearing at it's best ....

We should make their job a little bit more risky.

And - where in my first post did I mention a SOV-structure? The device I mentioned would be useable in low, null, wormholes, even in hisec.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Mag's
Azn Empire
#307 - 2015-01-16 20:57:01 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

I advocate the idea of a SOV structure that can online for a few hours but also takes a few hours to cool down after that, which wipes out cloaks.

The fact that most want it to be a SOV structure should be a huge indicator that this is less of a balance problem and more like carebears being in null sec. Nullbears


I think, that the playstyle of a riskfree permacloaked cynoalt is carebearing at it's best ....

We should make their job a little bit more risky.

And - where in my first post did I mention a SOV-structure? The device I mentioned would be useable in low, null, wormholes, even in hisec.
"I want to add more risk, by making it less risky for me."

Nice balance.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#308 - 2015-01-16 21:01:31 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

I advocate the idea of a SOV structure that can online for a few hours but also takes a few hours to cool down after that, which wipes out cloaks.

The fact that most want it to be a SOV structure should be a huge indicator that this is less of a balance problem and more like carebears being in null sec. Nullbears


I think, that the playstyle of a riskfree permacloaked cynoalt is carebearing at it's best ....

We should make their job a little bit more risky.

And - where in my first post did I mention a SOV-structure? The device I mentioned would be useable in low, null, wormholes, even in hisec.

Well, you are quite generous with your definitions being able to stretch themselves.
Carebear

If that were true, the cloaked fellow would be safely ignored.
Considering the sincere expectation they are attempting an ambush, very PvP oriented, as the primary reason they are avoided....
I would say rather that the ones avoiding them better fit the given term.

For balance sake, how would you expand the risk on the other side?
Or are you assuming the game is already out of balance, and this would correct that?

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Eryn Velasquez
#309 - 2015-01-16 21:03:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Eryn Velasquez
Mag's wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

I advocate the idea of a SOV structure that can online for a few hours but also takes a few hours to cool down after that, which wipes out cloaks.

The fact that most want it to be a SOV structure should be a huge indicator that this is less of a balance problem and more like carebears being in null sec. Nullbears


I think, that the playstyle of a riskfree permacloaked cynoalt is carebearing at it's best ....

We should make their job a little bit more risky.

And - where in my first post did I mention a SOV-structure? The device I mentioned would be useable in low, null, wormholes, even in hisec.
"I want to add more risk, by making it less risky for me."

Nice balance.


That's your opinion. Mine is, there should be no riskfree gamestyle, and permacloaked camping is just this. Campers with cynos are not the only risk in null, or don't you know that?

My solution is pretty fair - the habitants don't know, when the cloaker is going to lite his cyno, and the camper does'nt know, when the habitants fire the system scanner.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#310 - 2015-01-16 21:59:07 UTC
So we should add risk to docked players. Gotcha.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Eryn Velasquez
#311 - 2015-01-16 22:26:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Eryn Velasquez
Daichi Yamato wrote:
So we should add risk to docked players. Gotcha.


Would be nice - open the inner door CCP and let's play DUST inside. But that has nothing to do with cloaked camping.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Jenshae Chiroptera
#312 - 2015-01-16 23:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Lug Muad'Dib wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Sure, null sec is dangerous, UNLESS you are even in your own claimed space.
What are the current solutions?

1) Wait with a counter drop 23/7 and try catch them when they drop
(No sane person is going to sit on 100% ready status to jump at a moment all day long)
2) Camp every gate into your region, all the time with a perfect composition.
(Gate camping is as boring as mining and often less rewarding)

Meanwhile, the AFK cloaker sits in perfect safety picking and choosing choice targets. They are better off than in a station because they can fly to various points and can D-scan.


I want to know how to warp, D-SCAN, cyno and choosing choice targets when afk ?


As a defender, tell me what the difference is? They are AFK cloaked until they drop a BLOP on you.

It is using a dedicated account for play denial. It is the lamest, most carebear thing to do, sit in perfect safety until the odds are perfectly in your favour to attack.

It is not even a station with an undock you can camp. They can be anywhere in the system.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#313 - 2015-01-16 23:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

I advocate the idea of a SOV structure that can online for a few hours but also takes a few hours to cool down after that, which wipes out cloaks.

The fact that most want it to be a SOV structure should be a huge indicator that this is less of a balance problem and more like carebears being in null sec. Nullbears


You are also disregrading the idea of Force Recons as a hunter of cloaked ships.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#314 - 2015-01-16 23:40:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Faren Shalni wrote:
the difference between an AFK cloaker in W-space and K-space is that in K-space you see him in local. In W-space this in considered normal and is accepted. ...The difference is that you know he is there and is still there. ...
The difference is that you are in a worm hole alliance that is large.

Smaller entities, run, hide, then scan for all links to their system, hope they have enough cloaked people of their own to go and sit on those worm holes links and watch for when the enemies de-cloak when leaving, then keep sitting, waiting until they think it is safe enough to destabilise the link.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#315 - 2015-01-16 23:43:04 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
So we should add risk to docked players. Gotcha.


Would be nice - open the inner door CCP and let's play DUST inside. But that has nothing to do with cloaked camping.


It in fact has much to do with cloaked camping. Do you think it would be necessary to afk cloak if you could get into the homes of the carebears and destroy their ship in its hangar?


EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Jenshae Chiroptera
#316 - 2015-01-16 23:55:12 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
So we should add risk to docked players. Gotcha.
Would be nice - open the inner door CCP and let's play DUST inside. But that has nothing to do with cloaked camping.
It in fact has much to do with cloaked camping. Do you think it would be necessary to afk cloak if you could get into the homes of the carebears and destroy their ship in its hangar?
Do you think they can go and seek more ships to attack in the whole wide galaxy of EVE and come back another time?
People can AFK just as easily in a POS and that is destructable.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#317 - 2015-01-16 23:58:21 UTC
As someone who both PvE's and PvP's in nullsec, the people who act like it's terrible for people to be ratting in nullsec kind of confuse me.

Apparently it's a horrible cowardly thing not to knowingly expose your ship to potentially rapid death at any second, if you are in a purely PvE ship.

Or a PvP ship for that matter. I think we all know how well a 1v5+ typically goes, even if the 1 is in a PvP ship. I don't yolo into a 5 man gatecamp solo while in a pvp ship, why would unwillingness to go for a 1 v Many in a PvE ship be considered against the code of honorable space bushido as written by blopsers?
Eryn Velasquez
#318 - 2015-01-17 00:37:51 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
So we should add risk to docked players. Gotcha.


Would be nice - open the inner door CCP and let's play DUST inside. But that has nothing to do with cloaked camping.


It in fact has much to do with cloaked camping. Do you think it would be necessary to afk cloak if you could get into the homes of the carebears and destroy their ship in its hangar?




It is not necessary to stay cloaked in a system 23/7 to get kills. Killboard entries prove this. It's just a carebear style to get perfect riskless intel. The carebear cloaker has all odds on his side, he decides when and how the action starts.

My proposal puts a little risk on this behaviour. The risk for the habitants stays the same as before.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#319 - 2015-01-17 02:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Do you think they can go and seek more ships to attack in the whole wide galaxy of EVE and come back another time?
People can AFK just as easily in a POS and that is destructable.


Settled. Make a mechanic where it takes approx 36 hours to expose the cloaker. But if he moves, you have to start all over again.

Eryn Velasquez wrote:


It is not necessary to stay cloaked in a system 23/7 to get kills. Killboard entries prove this. It's just a carebear style to get perfect riskless intel. The carebear cloaker has all odds on his side, he decides when and how the action starts.

My proposal puts a little risk on this behaviour. The risk for the habitants stays the same as before.


Likewise the carebear docker has all odds on his side, he decides when and how the action starts.

My new proposal puts a little risk on his docking behaviour. The risk for cloakers stays the same as before.

New proposal:

Deployable, small enough to fit in a covert ops frig. has a four hour cool down.

When activated it ejects all docked ships from starbases and super bumps any ships out of a POS shield. If they are active they can warp out, if not they get 'grilled'.

This solves the risk-free game style of docking up when something that isnt blue appears in local.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#320 - 2015-01-17 04:09:47 UTC
Ignorance is blis.

Having a modual to cloak you vs local, and be non capadible with a regular clock in null sec would be an interesting thing.

As a carebear loving the trill of being hunted in nulsec, it annoys me to be Un able to defend or disarm a potential trap.

I would love to have an active game play that will allow me to neutralize the afk cloaker. Though not something that is instant. some game play that causes the cloaker to counter my moves as ?I try to hunt him down.

Also the name appearing in local is a lazy man's intell source. I would prefer my cloaking killer to have carefully laid a trap and hitting me with it. I want to be killed by a loan wolf comming out of no where, I don't want 1 person with 20 alts watching all my alliances system, hot dropping my single ship.

I think worm hole space is looking more and more interesting these days. If only podding would not result in ruining my casual game play

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships