Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I don't really feel I "missed the point". This whole thread is about afk cloaking in null space and you then chimed in saying that a ratting ship is not defenseless. I simply pointed out that it is, because MOST pvp in null space involves a 10 on 1 scenario and a ratting ship can't possibly win with those odds.

In any case, this is a little off topic so lets get back onto topic.


This thread pretty much boils down to:

1. People pointing out that someone cloaked can harass players in a system for days/weeks at a time with no counter, and that something like a log off timer or cloaks falling off after an hour or so would improve the issue.

2. Pvp white knights rushing to the defense of current cloaking and claiming that local intel is the issue.

3. Pvp white knights failing to realize that if you take away local intel and make it imperfect intel, then people in cloaked ships would have a MUCH easier time killing ratters. The end result would be ratting becoming impossible in null sec because cloaked ships would be able to sneak up on ratters on a daily basis.

Simply put the pro-cloak crowd has not provided a reasonable solution to AFK cloaking while the pro-ratter crowd has provided a somewhat decent solution, which is logoff / decloak timers.

You can also move over a system, if he follows you he is active, if not he is AFK.

You are avoiding acknowledging a few important details.
You seem to ignore player driven intel, which is a major sov sided benefit for residents to use.

1. Cloaked scouts feeding intel for sov residents.
One account, with a cloaked ship at a gate, is enough to track passage through a pipeline system.
With enough players, it is not surprising to have full coverage of all key points of travel monitored.
A few bubbles around the right gate, and you have a lovely tarpit.

2. That cloaked hunter needs to check everywhere, or risk missing targets.
He no longer would have certain knowledge of target presence, so scanning everywhere, (within reason), becomes necessary.
(Map statistics can also be used by defenders, once they see they are a hotspot, relocate to less notable location, and the hunters only get told about past events, not current ones)

Observation Arrays

For Observation Arrays, I have to work under a pair of assumptions; each assumption changes some fundamental characteristics of the OA. The first assumption is that null-sec Local will be removed as a baseline feature. Under that assumption,


Observational Arrays should, to some degree, return some version of Local Chat to their system. Keep in mind that doing so would burn fuel continuously; CCP has also stated that players will be able to anchor more than one OA in a system, so I think it would be fair to state that multiple OAs should return Local to its current state of operation, at the cost of all that fuel constantly running.
Other options for Local, should an alliance not have enough OAs for "Full Local" functionality (or if they're not turned on at a given time) could be: No local at all; a 'Doorbell' that provides a soft inbound/outbound noise played system-wide when a ship enters or leaves (but with no counter); or a 'Local Counter' as mentioned elsewhere that shows the number of ships, but not who.


Now, if we work under the assumption that null-sec local will remain as a baseline feature, then they obviously won't influence the Local Chat window since it wouldn't be going anywhere in the first place. Anyway, moving on.

If we envision OAs in the fitting window shown for stations, a multitude of different functionality options appear before us. For instance,

If an OA can be sat in, we'll assume it has a host of scanning equipment (because duh). We could tie OA scanning into the Beta Map and allow it to visually show us where D-scan pings come up; it could be equipped/rigged to scan down any signatures in its range; it could be equipped with specialized scanners that can penetrate cloaks.

After all, remember: the problem isn't cloaky campers, the problem is afk cloaky campers. If a dude has the day off and decides to spend it cloak-burning safes, bouncing around your system, ganking your Retrievers and then disappearing again- he deserves to do this. That player is active, and that's the key; he or she could dodge an OA scan by moving. An afk cloaky camper would get caught, which is good because that gameplay is totally lame.

Disabling Observational Arrays

Obviously shooting it or entosising it would turn it off, but here's a thought: Ships that entosis it or shoot it cause an alarm to go off, much like an ESS does today. "Ulthanon is attacking the OA!", and then everyone warps in and dumpsters me. Sadness reigns.

BUT, I have another option. I can fly a CovOps! And if I come in with my Data Module*, I can hack the OA into submission without triggering a system-wide warning. Maybe upon successful hack, I can chose one or more of its intelligence streams to turn off. Maybe I shut down local. Maybe I make all of the anoms in the system go to 0%, needing them to be scanned down like signatures. The what can be debated but it adds an interesting dynamic that exploration ships have never had before.

Obviously, if I fail the hack, I get locked out of the system and the warning is broadcast. Now everyone knows to scan for my Buzzard and I am once again hunted down like the dog I am. Maybe failure disables my cloak for a time!

As for the OA's module slots, maybe these would be more toward anti-hacking defenses than actual launchers or turrets. Perhaps certain rigs/mods increase the system core's strength, while others have an increased chance to spawn Restoration Nodes. In this way, we keep the OA's theme intact (lightly defended but highly advanced), we encourage active gameplay (discouraging afk campers and passive OA boosts), we add a new and interesting dimension to a previously PvE-only skillset and we balance risk with reward for both sov-holders and hunting gangs.

You are also leaving out that if a tackle occurs (even if the tackle dies to rats) the added time it takes for a battleship to align for a warp is going to be more than enough time for the tackle's friends (say a small gang of 10 to 15) to arrive and kill the battleship. Seriously, if you get tackled in a ratting ship it is a death sentence 95% of the time.

"Funny how they leave out these kinds of things"

'Depth Charges' fired from interdictor class ships (similar to bubbles but merely decloak or not allow to cloak) you can either use the disrupt probe or depth charge but not both at the same time; would give interdictors a little more versatility but maybe could usher in another t2 destroyer variant for all the races?
Mobile structures; self explanatory.

Whilst these wont actually stop people from afk cloaking systems it would make it a little harder for them to move around and its not a nerf but rather an acheivable scientific goal many factions (certainly in rl) would more than likely be working towards anyway?

Filling with neutrals and hostiles is all you are doing now, with a cloak. You aren't sneaking anything, you are in fact relying on the fact you cannot sneak to cause the disruption. Without local you could sneak with a titan and a big brass band.

Your second point makes no sense, unless you mean that local is a home advantage. It's not. As you said and has been my point on multiple occasions, Local works the exact same everywhere. The "Home Advantage" is actually just available allies working together to keep eachother safe. Defense fleets, escorts, and intel channels are all examples of people working together to keep eachother safe.

Cloaks that allow for afk camping break all of that, with no effort. a single cheap module should not passively offset the active efforts of multiple players.

You seem to be attacking a point I didn't make.

The home advantage is that there are people to help you. It's not the load delay or anything like that, and no one said so, except you.

Local is a design feature. It is doing exactly what it was intended to do, helping to drive conflict by letting people know that you are in the same system with one another. It's the surrounding game mechanics that create the stalemate and prevent PvP from occurring. Things like ludicrously one sided engagements reinforced by the needs of PvE, the complete lack of any reward for attempting PvP, the absolute tackle mechanics, and the meta-game culture that reveres predator-victim style combat.

I don't want safer ratting handed to anyone, just the opportunity to earn it through proactive action, just like anything else in EVE.

Local is a design feature. It is doing exactly what it was intended to do, helping to drive conflict by letting people know that you are in the same system with one another.