Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think most roams will shoot most targets of opportunity, up to and including other PvP ships, so I find this statement to be errant nonsense and a wild exaggeration.



They cannot fight because the players min-max the fittings. It is like fitting a procuror or skiff for for yield over tank then whining when you got killed by a ganker. If you make a choice where you ship is ill-equiped for PvP and PvP happens...well part of the blame is on you for your fitting choices.

Yes, yes I know your isk/hour ratio and all that. But this is a game about trade offs. Yes, you can fit a ship for great isk/hour, but the trade off is that if you get tackled...well you are screwed. Of course you don't lose a ship every time you undock do you. If you lose a ship after making several times what your ship costs, I really don't see the problem at all. In fact, you still come out ahead so working as intended.



Oh, but they do. Was just reading about a guy who had his vargur tackled. A corpmate lost a sleipnir saving it. The guy who had the vargur reimbursed the loss.

It's true, mostly.

The competing interests of 'fly what you can afford to lose' and concerns over ISK/hour dictate how PvE ships are fit. The minimum is what you can survive with. In most cases it's not as if you can fit an omnitank and call if a day. In addition you have cost/benefit to weigh. If The content cannot be done more profitability than in high sec, why put up with the hassle.

So in order to make more dangerous space pay you have to specialize in doing it. This is by design. However, you should be meeting resistance getting to that specialized ship. That's the fun and content that's being skipped in favor of easy kills and epeen stroking.

The cloaked ship is in essence winning EvE by default. It pretty much owns the solar system it's in, unless there is in fact a largish fleet at the ready, at all times. The cloak can only be denied its influence by having a constant, active, and largish force on hand. That is too much for a single module with trivial costs and no trade offs.

I had a huge thing typed out and deleted it twice because I realized how far I was actually taking this off topic. So the TL ; DR of what I had written is:
-I partially agree, but feel strongly that the whole PVE system of eve needs a massive once, twice, thrice over.
-High sec isk faucets need to be neutered to drag players by the balls to low/null/wh space if they want to plex their accounts.
-PVE needs to be more engaging and require group effort at higher levels than what exist today
-At least a handful of involved ships should mimic a typical pvp set up such that at least some players can get over risk aversion when the possiblity of a fight happens around
--I had used the example previously of requiring to point rats or they have a change to warp off and you get no bounty
-We need a lot more shiny modules to go poof in this game and ccp needs to look at options outside of pvp for their removal at the same time
--T2 deadspace/faction whose components are obtained via reprocessing their t1 deadspace/faction counterparts.


There, now that's actually a TL ; DR not the page and a half of offtopic had written before lol



Back to topic, Void, CCPs patches need to be far more forward thinking than simply "remove cloaky campers." You have already started to see why the idea myself an techos have came up with is likely closest the most balanced solution. It's a solution that not only fixes the current complaints, but also opens up more opportunities for conflict to occur at the same time. The problem of how PVE currently functions is a whole other topic that we really should try to leave out of this post and warrants a whole new pinned post for everyone to give their ideas like this one.

If you are not interested in PvP...then this is probably not the right game for those players. I know that is often a trite cliche, but there is actually quite a bit of truth to it.

Or, we can change the nature of PvE so that it's compatible with PvP, rather than creating a situation where half the player base is essentially paying to fly helpless targets.

That's the part that needs to be fixed. I do not want to run when others show up, I would rather fight them and then go back to the things I enjoy, like exploring and building stuff. Sadly, the needs of doing any PvE lock me either into a fleet of bored combat pilots, into a ship that can handle aggressors but not the content I logged on for, or into compromises that remove all actual profit from the endeavor.

PvE pilots do not owe anyone kills at their expense. They don't owe you a good fight, loot, kill mails or even pretty explosions. All the talk of them being to safe is the whining moans of a bunch of questionable people looking to vent domestic abuse urges. You want your ships built, but you want to smack around the builders too. EvE caters to many playstyles, and each of those proffesions should be viable and I enjoyable in their own right, not just for the other guy.

I don't think you will find a lot of difficulty finding dissatisfied PvE pilots. There might even be one or two in this thread.

On the other hand, you might find the game a little rough for you, if using broken tactics to shoot unarmed ships is your definition of PvP.

Honestly, I like EVE. I have issues with many of it's players, but I have found that the bloodthirsty gankers are somewhat of a vocal minority. To a small extent we need them too, they keep the pay to win folks frustrated when they pick up blingy ships for real world cash and then lose them on the undock.

There is nothing stopping you from changing the way you PvE so that you can deal with PvP if it happens. You don't want to change the way you PvE and this is the crux of the problem, IMO. If one insists on the following:

1. PvEing solo.
2. Remaining in a noob corp/NPC corp/one man corp (even with alts).
3. Min/Maxing your fits for the rats you are shooting

Said pilots are likely going to find that PvP is going to be quite problematic when it happens.



The first part of this paragraph is a non-sequitur. Nobody is saying that anyone owes others kills, loot, good fights, etc.

Your moronic statement about people wanting to vent real life domestic abuse urges is completely uncalled for and indicates you just don't understand what this game is about. If a player wants to set up an account and play the villain in the game, that is absolutely a valid tactic and is part of what makes this game exciting and different than most MMOs out there.

As for ship builders being abused...you again are being...well...too limited in your thinking. While I don't build ships, I do engage in a fair amount of industry. I have an entire account dedicated to it. So, STFU and don't try and speak for me (as an industrialist in the game). I am quite fine with the fact that my highly specialized and totally combat ineffective industrial alts can be shot by just about anyone anywhere in game and not present much threat to those shooting them.

By solo I meant just all by your lonesome. No standing fleet, with people not in your anomaly, belt, etc. So, when I do PvE, and I've done a fair amount lately, I am not solo. There are other people in fleet. Not in my anomaly, but in fleet. We also have miners in the fleet, and people will even set up ships for boosts.



This is not the only way it has to be done. Even if you are using specialized ships for PvE there are things you can do to mitigate the risks from unanticipated PvP. If you steadfastly refuse to even consider implementing some of these mitigation factors then that is really your problem, not a game design/mechanics problem.



OMG. Do you always do this with everyone you try to discuss issues with? Distort what they said? I never said I enjoy the fact that my industrial guys are combat ineffective, I said I'm fine with it. In other words, I accept the consequences of my decisions. There is a difference between the two.

We will probably never run out of players, who view the PvE side of EVE not as something to be so much played, as it is to be endured.

To them, it is meant to be handled in the most efficient manner possible.
Roams / blobs / and meta gaming are all they seek. PvE is viewed as a necessary evil to pay for these sides of EVE they do prefer.

To these players, automating this PvE play would probably be just fine, since they never looked on it as worthwhile play at all.
Putting more effort into it, on the other hand, would push the other parts of the game farther away, which they do not want.

They would not want it automated. They want it as time and attention consuming as possible so as to make them easier targets. There is a substancial population of vocal gankbears that wet themselves every time something happens to make PvE better.

The funny thing is that putting time, effort and maybe even a little dignity and respect into PvE would increase subs doing those activities, potentially providing more 'content' for the gankbears to target. It might even make things worth fighting for in space and provide a more entertaining experience for all involved.