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compressed ore prices

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Cheese Crackers
Malfurion Mining
#1 - 2015-01-06 01:19:21 UTC
hey all, was just wanting to know your opinions on the current pricing of compressed ore vs uncompressed ore. as it sits the compressed ore demands a much higher price per rock than the standard. for example massive compressed scordite at average eve central pricing is approx. 3705 per unit whereas the single ore units are approx 34 per. this would net an increase of 3 isk per unit when compressed. And thats for the competitive 10% ores, the 5%'s can be even greater. Since the changing of compression and refining and the like, in it's curent form I see little reason for such an increase considering the compression of the ore helps both the buyer and seller in terms of moving the ore. in order to sell it the miner/hauler or general seller must get it to the station and having it compressed means that a large amount can be moved at one time, then buyer buys it and can move large amounts to where its needed. I see no reason for compressed ore to grant a higher premium than the standard ore. Thats just my thoughts looking into that area of the market. I am by no means much of a miner and I may be all wrong so please educate me if that is found to be true. Would also like to hear your thoughts on this small section of the market.

cheers, CC.
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2015-01-06 01:29:36 UTC
It's easier to move so it's worth more, what is so hard to understand about that?

It costs time/effort to move something, if I can move it in one trip instead of 10 it is worth more to me.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Hippinse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-01-06 02:53:45 UTC
It adds a large amount of value for builders in null who need copious amounts of minerals. It also adds a non-trivial amount of costs (depending on choices) or time-investment for the person doing the compressing. Both of these factors increase the price.

Some people who *don't* do this (mining or compressing) have strong opinions on what the price should be, or (haha) even the best way to do it. (For instance, I'm an idiot because I keep my POS up full-time and eat 100M/month in fuel costs. Apparently they have accurately assessed my time spent hauling as of no value to me.... Or maybe they think that freighters are cheap but POS fuel is expensive.)

The truth that is being ignored is very simple: If it was so trivial to do this and rake in buckets of isk due to over-valuation, then everyone would already be doing that. If the compressed ore isn't worth it, it won't be.


Also... no offense intended, but given your posting history this doesn't seem as likely to be a genuine question as it does a potential form of influence.
Cheese Crackers
Malfurion Mining
#4 - 2015-01-06 03:25:22 UTC
Hippinse wrote:
It adds a large amount of value for builders in null who need copious amounts of minerals. It also adds a non-trivial amount of costs (depending on choices) or time-investment for the person doing the compressing. Both of these factors increase the price.

Some people who *don't* do this (mining or compressing) have strong opinions on what the price should be, or (haha) even the best way to do it. (For instance, I'm an idiot because I keep my POS up full-time and eat 100M/month in fuel costs. Apparently they have accurately assessed my time spent hauling as of no value to me.... Or maybe they think that freighters are cheap but POS fuel is expensive.)

The truth that is being ignored is very simple: If it was so trivial to do this and rake in buckets of isk due to over-valuation, then everyone would already be doing that. If the compressed ore isn't worth it, it won't be.


Also... no offense intended, but given your posting history this doesn't seem as likely to be a genuine question as it does a potential form of influence.


the POS costs didnt even cross my mind, at the end of the day, the way i saw it if the miners get an easier time moving all their ore as well as the seller then there should be no difference. Would be interesting to calculate how many units compressed it would take to pay off the fuel each weel and compressor. Im by no means a market connoisseur, was just interested in price differences. Its the holidays, everyone left and im bored :P
Hippinse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-01-06 03:36:16 UTC
Cheese Crackers wrote:
the POS costs didnt even cross my mind, at the end of the day, the way i saw it if the miners get an easier time moving all their ore as well as the seller then there should be no difference.


If the compression was possible in a station, then this truly would be trivial and the market would collapse. Compression prices would be nearly equal to raw ore prices. (No fuel prices, able to outsource hauling completely, etc.)

Some folks nearly avoid the fuel prices completely (I think 10 units is mandatory) by anchoring and then taking down the POS as soon as compression is complete. In order for this to make sense (minimizing fuel costs) that means that you should save up a large amount of ore before you put the POS up. And then *that* means that you either spend 8 hours hauling from the station to the POS in a T1/orca, or you sink 1.3B into a freighter. For me, right now buying the fuel makes the most sense.

I should have prefaced: All of my experience is doing this in high sec.
Cheese Crackers
Malfurion Mining
#6 - 2015-01-06 03:50:32 UTC
Hippinse wrote:

Some folks nearly avoid the fuel prices completely (I think 10 units is mandatory) by anchoring and then taking down the POS as soon as compression is complete. In order for this to make sense (minimizing fuel costs) that means that you should save up a large amount of ore before you put the POS up. And then *that* means that you either spend 8 hours hauling from the station to the POS in a T1/orca, or you sink 1.3B into a freighter. For me, right now buying the fuel makes the most sense.

that would well offset fuel costs cutting into profits, albeit painful with all those onlining/offlining timers
Hippinse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-01-06 04:25:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Hippinse
Cheese Crackers wrote:
Hippinse wrote:

Some folks nearly avoid the fuel prices completely (I think 10 units is mandatory) by anchoring and then taking down the POS as soon as compression is complete. In order for this to make sense (minimizing fuel costs) that means that you should save up a large amount of ore before you put the POS up. And then *that* means that you either spend 8 hours hauling from the station to the POS in a T1/orca, or you sink 1.3B into a freighter. For me, right now buying the fuel makes the most sense.

that would well offset fuel costs cutting into profits, albeit painful with all those onlining/offlining timers


The timers are trivial. Very short. The problem is "how do I get the umpty-m3 of ore in the station into the compression array since I can't contract that out"? That is what causes people to spend 1.3B on a freighter, or spend 100M/month in fuel costs (so that instead of belt->station you belt->POS->station, which doesn't add much time to each trip), or you swear off compression altogether.

Solving the problem with a T1 so as not to cut into profits is like the industrialist who manufactures with "free" minerals that he mines himself. The time has value.

Edit: The timers are trivial on a small POS, which is all you need for a compression array.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-01-06 07:15:19 UTC
An upgraded nullsec refinery gets a 20% bonus on refines done there, which means someone buying it (like me) can buy well above Jita refine value and still get minerals at what comes out to be the equivalent of Jita price or even lower, so that tends to drive a premium.

In reality, the prices tend to fluctuate. They'll rise up well above Jita refine values, and then get crushed by some large miner or whatever - rinse and repeat. The 5% and 10% varieties will usually though not always command a bit of a premium just because they're less well supplied, but generally speaking, only the Mexallon bearing ores consistently demand a premium due to the scarcity of Mex in nullsec.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Cheese Crackers
Malfurion Mining
#9 - 2015-01-06 08:12:37 UTC
mynnna wrote:
An upgraded nullsec refinery gets a 20% bonus on refines done there, which means someone buying it (like me) can buy well above Jita refine value and still get minerals at what comes out to be the equivalent of Jita price or even lower, so that tends to drive a premium.

In reality, the prices tend to fluctuate. They'll rise up well above Jita refine values, and then get crushed by some large miner or whatever - rinse and repeat. The 5% and 10% varieties will usually though not always command a bit of a premium just because they're less well supplied, but generally speaking, only the Mexallon bearing ores consistently demand a premium due to the scarcity of Mex in nullsec.


I did not know that about null sec, thanks for that :)
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#10 - 2015-01-06 09:37:23 UTC
Cheese Crackers wrote:
mynnna wrote:
An upgraded nullsec refinery gets a 20% bonus on refines done there, which means someone buying it (like me) can buy well above Jita refine value and still get minerals at what comes out to be the equivalent of Jita price or even lower, so that tends to drive a premium.

In reality, the prices tend to fluctuate. They'll rise up well above Jita refine values, and then get crushed by some large miner or whatever - rinse and repeat. The 5% and 10% varieties will usually though not always command a bit of a premium just because they're less well supplied, but generally speaking, only the Mexallon bearing ores consistently demand a premium due to the scarcity of Mex in nullsec.


I did not know that about nullsec, thanks for that :)


the icons for compressed ore look like cake. just sayin'

@JerryTPepridge