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A "Who can shoot me" chart

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Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#1 - 2015-01-04 19:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Aphoxema G
One of the most confusing yet most important things to be aware of in EVE is who is allowed to attack you and when. Even the most basic hostility control, System Security Status, is easy to misunderstand and requires players to go out of their way to become familiar with the mechanic. Many don't even try, either suffering repeatedly or never bothering to venture out of High Security space.

Even after comprehending how System Security Status works there's a lot of ways that someone can still be attacked without that person realizing/remembering how they caused that problem, such as the following.


  • Personal Security Status in relation to System Security Status
  • Standings to NPC empires
  • Kill rights
  • Limited engagement
  • War declarations
  • Joining a militia


What could help anyone with this is a page on the character sheet that informs the player of any status that could allow aggression. If they have a negative security status, it would tell them at what system security levels they would be attacked by NPC police. If they're at war, it would say who with and when the war will begin or end.

And when this overall status changes, a notification would appear informing the player that they have new enemies and clicking it would lead to that page on the character sheet.

This would be an excellent tool for new players, anyone who plays infrequently or anyone who uses multiple characters.

And just because this is amazing and everyone should show it to their noob friends...

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Fear no more, for the flowchart is here! You asked, and I delivered!

.xml format flowchart download:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/019s6s0k5ylxz1y/EVE%20Online%20Who%20Can%20Shoot%20Me.xml?dl=0

.png format image view:
http://i.imgur.com/OuNIV7w.png
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2 - 2015-01-04 19:22:17 UTC
Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#3 - 2015-01-04 19:25:14 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. Blink


I'd agree if NPCs weren't also an issue, one that you can't actually fight back against.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2015-01-04 19:26:20 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. Blink



yeah it wouldn't be much of a chart as everyone can shoot you everywhere

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2015-01-04 19:27:28 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. Blink


I'd agree if NPCs weren't also an issue, one that you can't actually fight back against.


other than CONCORD what NPC can't you fight back against and again that would be a short chart its just if you have just attacked some one in HS then CONCORD will shoot

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#6 - 2015-01-04 19:29:13 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. Blink



yeah it wouldn't be much of a chart as everyone can shoot you everywhere


Well, it could just turn into a giant skull and crossbones when you get your security status below -5 advising you to HTFU or GTFO.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2015-01-04 19:30:43 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. Blink



yeah it wouldn't be much of a chart as everyone can shoot you everywhere


Well, it could just turn into a giant skull and crossbones when you get your security status below -5 advising you to HTFU or GTFO.



but everyone can shoot you everywhere even if you have 10.0 sec status

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#8 - 2015-01-04 19:31:17 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Aphoxema G wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. Blink


I'd agree if NPCs weren't also an issue, one that you can't actually fight back against.


other than CONCORD what NPC can't you fight back against and again that would be a short chart its just if you have just attacked some one in HS then CONCORD will shoot


If you get your standings to an empire low enough, their navy NPCs will follow and shoot you in hisec, and while they're not indestructible they are very powerful and more will appear after they're destroyed.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#9 - 2015-01-04 19:33:19 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Aphoxema G wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. Blink



yeah it wouldn't be much of a chart as everyone can shoot you everywhere


Well, it could just turn into a giant skull and crossbones when you get your security status below -5 advising you to HTFU or GTFO.



but everyone can shoot you everywhere even if you have 10.0 sec status


But at a cost. That's why we have aggression mechanics. That's what I'm discussing.
Iain Cariaba
#10 - 2015-01-04 19:34:59 UTC
Here's the chart you were looking for:

Quote:
Where am I?....................Who can shoot me?
Undocked.........................Everyone

There, that wasn't so hard now, was it?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#11 - 2015-01-04 19:35:15 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:


other than CONCORD what NPC can't you fight back against and again that would be a short chart its just if you have just attacked some one in HS then CONCORD will shoot


If you get your standings to an empire low enough, their navy NPCs will follow and shoot you in hisec, and while they're not indestructible they are very powerful and more will appear after they're destroyed.



but you can still fight back against them and this info isn't hard to find out of game as well you are notified when entering a system.

not to mention a well tanked cruiser can perma tank them and even a battle ship can warp b4 they show up not to mention they don't scram you so they aren't "very powerful" at all

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Elythiel
Wildfire Interstellar
#12 - 2015-01-04 19:42:29 UTC
I think what she's getting at is..

"Who can shoot me without retribution, no matter the security status of the system I'm in?"

And I think that's a valid question that takes a long time to get the hang of for newer players.

While I don't believe we should give EVE Online an easy mode, I do believe that all knowledge is worth having, and something like this could help people become better at surviving New Eden.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#13 - 2015-01-04 19:45:51 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Aphoxema G wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:


other than CONCORD what NPC can't you fight back against and again that would be a short chart its just if you have just attacked some one in HS then CONCORD will shoot


If you get your standings to an empire low enough, their navy NPCs will follow and shoot you in hisec, and while they're not indestructible they are very powerful and more will appear after they're destroyed.



but you can still fight back against them and this info isn't hard to find out of game as well you are notified when entering a system.

not to mention a well tanked cruiser can perma tank them and even a battle ship can warp b4 they show up not to mention they don't scram you so they aren't "very powerful" at all


They're powerful enough that if you're not aware of how the aggression mechanics work you'll probably get screwed anyways. The "notification" is a momentary blip on the screen that is easily missed or misunderstood. And the issue isn't finding out everything someone needs to know, it's knowing that they even need to find out.

New Eden is a cruel place, and it should stay that way, but unnecessary difficulty created by many features being added over years makes EVE just look like a mess. I shouldn't have to look in 4 different places just to find out if I'm particularly unsafe.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#14 - 2015-01-04 19:46:25 UTC
Elythiel wrote:
I think what she's getting at is..

"Who can shoot me without retribution, no matter the security status of the system I'm in?"

And I think that's a valid question that takes a long time to get the hang of for newer players.

While I don't believe we should give EVE Online an easy mode, I do believe that all knowledge is worth having, and something like this could help people become better at surviving New Eden.


but that information is easy to find via a quick google search or asking a corp m8 or some one in rookie help



all of those options don't take dev time

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Elythiel
Wildfire Interstellar
#15 - 2015-01-04 19:48:29 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Elythiel wrote:
I think what she's getting at is..

"Who can shoot me without retribution, no matter the security status of the system I'm in?"

And I think that's a valid question that takes a long time to get the hang of for newer players.

While I don't believe we should give EVE Online an easy mode, I do believe that all knowledge is worth having, and something like this could help people become better at surviving New Eden.


but that information is easy to find via a quick google search or asking a corp m8 or some one in rookie help



all of those options don't take dev time


You shouldn't have to leave the game to find out who is allowed to screw you eight ways to Sunday. Your comment is case in point for her argument.

This information shouldn't be hidden. It should be presented to the player.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#16 - 2015-01-04 19:56:22 UTC
Elythiel wrote:


You shouldn't have to leave the game to find out who is allowed to screw you eight ways to Sunday. Your comment is case in point for her argument.

This information shouldn't be hidden. It should be presented to the player.


Right so we should also have the devs spend time with making in game was to see how tracking speed works with sig or how R-click sell will lose you isk. that its a bad idea to fly with over 200mill in an easy to pop ship ect




there is a lot to this game and rather than the devs having to spend time and resources explaining all of that they leave it up to other players


and forcing them to go out of game to find the info or ask another player isn't necessarily a bad thing. as it teaches a player to go outside the game to find tools to help you (something you need to learn to be competitive in most parts of eve) or it forces you to interact with other players

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Elythiel
Wildfire Interstellar
#17 - 2015-01-04 20:05:01 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Right so we should also have the devs spend time with making in game was to see how tracking speed works with sig or how R-click sell will lose you isk. that its a bad idea to fly with over 200mill in an easy to pop ship ect

That's not the case here. Those things are common sense. Obviously you should pay attention to your market transactions. Obviously you should protect the valuables you are transporting.

What's not obvious, and hard to tell at a glance, is where you can travel safely and where you can't, depending on a myriad of different secstat values, and system security levels. Who is free to shoot you without getting their own ass handed to them by CONCORD or gate guns. This information is not presented in a clear way to any player. And that is what she is suggesting here. It's not like CCP needs to do a lot of development on this compared to other features. The information is all there. It merely needs to be organized.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#18 - 2015-01-04 20:13:38 UTC
As it is, if I ask myself "In what circumstances can players shoot me without consequence, and when will normally passive NPCs attack me?" then I know I have to

1. Open the character sheet, look at the 8th line from the top, if it's above -5.0 I can rule out someone being able to shoot me in lowsec without incurring a suspect flag or in hisec incurring a criminal flag. Provided that I have not incurred a Limited Engagement, Suspect or Criminal timer, and that we're not at active war, and that we're not in opposing Faction Warfare militias, and that I do not have a kill right that can be activated. If it's above -2.0, then NPC police won't aggress me.

2. Go to the Standings page in the Character sheet, go to the "Disliked By" tab and look under Factions. If I have a Modified Personal Standing below -5 with Minmatar Republic, Amarr Empire, Caldari State or Gallente Federation then in those parts of space I will be attacked by their powerful navies. Maybe I'll be in a ship that can handle it, but I'll probably be in an industrial providing free loot to everyone around me as I helplessly struggle to undock in a swarm of other players.

3. Check the Kill Rights page to see if I have any outstanding kill rights made public, probably for free.

4. Go to Corporation, under the Wars tab, then Our Wars under that to see if my current corporation or alliance is at war with anyone.

I know all this. I've played this game for 10 years, I damn well better. It's not only good for me to be aware of these kinds of things, but sometimes I need other people to be aware of them too.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-01-04 20:15:33 UTC
I think the thing becomes that crimewatch etc is a bit more complex than 'undocked? you can be shot'

Maybe take that as a given and then go into the nuances of what the results will be . . . which of course depends on where you are

In Rookie chat we field questions about this all the time along with the obverse of 'Can I shoot him?' and the attached 'what will happen?' The same for yellow wrecks, duels, and turning off the safety. I would LOVE a freking flowchart I could just cut and paste to the chat when any of these questions came up.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Lugh Crow-Slave
#20 - 2015-01-04 20:24:16 UTC
Elythiel wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Right so we should also have the devs spend time with making in game was to see how tracking speed works with sig or how R-click sell will lose you isk. that its a bad idea to fly with over 200mill in an easy to pop ship ect

That's not the case here. Those things are common sense. Obviously you should pay attention to your market transactions. Obviously you should protect the valuables you are transporting.



Tell that to the new player who doesn't even realize the market is player run and not seeded or like most new players understand HS as a "safe zone"


it's not until some one tells them or they get blasted that many of them learn this.


do i think there are things CCP could do to help the NPE? yes, but this just seems to be something that would clutter the UI more than it would help

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
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