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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Heavy Missiles, lets make them interesting

First post
Author
CW Itovuo
The Executioners
#261 - 2015-01-22 03:30:41 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:


On another note: The AC balance thread must have been noticed by someone, given the changes coming in the next release. Any guesses as to how many more release cycles we'll have to sit through before someone decides to un-nerf heavy missiles?
Maybe we'll see something useful being done when the Caldari T3 Destroyer is released. Or, and I think that this is more likely, the Caldari T3 will be a hybrid platform and CCP will go on ignoring us.




Yup, funny how AC's get a small unannounced buff.

Missiles still languish; no DEV feedback, even after multiple threadnaughts.


Sad




Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#262 - 2015-01-22 05:27:45 UTC
So long as we don't return to the days of set-orbit and winmatar, then I couldn't give a damn about ACs.
Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#263 - 2015-01-22 12:09:28 UTC
Heavy missiles are fine, and in line with the other long range medium weapon systems.... Why are ppl advocating ideas that promote power creep?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#264 - 2015-01-22 12:17:02 UTC
Kalihira wrote:
I didnt read the thread, or the evidence or the damage charts from CCP, but guys Heavy missiles are fine


Fixed that for you.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#265 - 2015-01-22 12:19:05 UTC
Kalihira wrote:
Heavy missiles are fine, and in line with the other long range medium weapon systems.... Why are ppl advocating ideas that promote power creep?

Heavy missiles are not fine and the ideas being promoted are, if you had bothered to read, advocating balance as opposed to power creep. Heavy missiles are still reeling from the nerf bat blow that was delivered to "fix" the Drake years back. I won't reiterate the points that have been made, there's 13 other pages for that, so why not go find out how thin the margin is by which heavy's are better than rails, for example.
Scorpionstrike
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#266 - 2015-01-22 13:33:41 UTC
Why not put some imagination into missile's don't limit it to modern day missiles, why not attach the technology of the micro jump drive to the missile itself creating missiles that are "almost instant" - with a small spool up time

could only be for heavy missiles but that could be expanded
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#267 - 2015-01-23 15:42:41 UTC
Rapid heavy missile launchers are fine or maybe a little overpowered. Heavy missiles are underpowered though. And if heavy missiles weren't underpowered, rapid heavy launchers would be totally overpowered. Because, well, rapid heavy and rapid light launchers are just overpowered.

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Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#268 - 2015-01-24 01:09:29 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Rapid heavy missile launchers are fine or maybe a little overpowered. Heavy missiles are underpowered though. And if heavy missiles weren't underpowered, rapid heavy launchers would be totally overpowered. Because, well, rapid heavy and rapid light launchers are just overpowered.


Soooo delete rapid launchers and fix heavies properly? Does anyone use rhml? I haven't seen it.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#269 - 2015-01-24 20:46:50 UTC
"Gorski pointed out that the Drake is a joke compared to what it used to be. CCP Fozzie replied that of
course it was a joke compared to where it used to be, since it used to be incredibly dominant. He said
that the current meta is geared towards speed and that penalizes battlecurisers and battleship usage for
small gangs and solo, but that not every ship needs to be balanced into every prevailing meta." -CSM Winter Day 3 Minutes

Obviously there was probably a lot of discussion, and I might just be a little pessimistic, but I'm reading this as there are no plans for balance passes to address the Drake, which touches on HM's. I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised but at this point it definitely seems like CCP has little to know interest in the goings on of this thread. Thoughts?
Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#270 - 2015-01-25 02:35:54 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
. He said
that the current meta is geared towards speed and that penalizes battlecurisers and battleship usage for
small gangs and solo


lol wat? first of all for small gangs and solo speed has always been and will always be dominant. simply put a fast ship can dictate range, escape predators and catch prey.

secondly this game currently favors weapons that apply damage regardless of target speed and range. IE drones and LML / RLML.

and by speed do you mean Drone boats? they're not that fast matter in fact they're some of the slowest cruisers in the game. the issue is they out run anything that can out gun them (which is not much) and, and anything that can catch them they can apply perfect damage to out tank out nuet and generally face **** anything on grid.

BSes don't suck, CBCs suck because most of them got nerfed in to the ground.
Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#271 - 2015-01-25 02:38:44 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
So long as we don't return to the days of set-orbit and winmatar, then I couldn't give a damn about ACs.


I have never actually seen this work till the ASB on booster buffed ships. you never orbited with a ruppy, vaga, cane or sleip.... till now.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#272 - 2015-01-25 02:39:55 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
"Gorski pointed out that the Drake is a joke compared to what it used to be. CCP Fozzie replied that of
course it was a joke compared to where it used to be, since it used to be incredibly dominant. He said
that the current meta is geared towards speed and that penalizes battlecurisers and battleship usage for
small gangs and solo, but that not every ship needs to be balanced into every prevailing meta." -CSM Winter Day 3 Minutes

Obviously there was probably a lot of discussion, and I might just be a little pessimistic, but I'm reading this as there are no plans for balance passes to address the Drake, which touches on HM's. I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised but at this point it definitely seems like CCP has little to know interest in the goings on of this thread. Thoughts?


As always it was never the heavy missile that was the problem but still ships are being balanced around the modules they use instead of the other way around. In 2 more years we might finally see this addressed.

As for BC and BS they have internally metricated that these ships shall have glass ceilings of performance in various places and ways. Take a look at battleships themselves will get about 110k tank without dipping in to faction gear. For the raven hulls you get 90k. It's almost as if fitting the way they're meant to be done is actively penalised and we're all meant to fly around fruity non-conformist fits that focus on speed or impressive artistic displays or something.

Case in point: polarised weapons. These are ridiculous but if you watch some of Rise's old livestreams this guy really deeply believes in risk/reward it's just a shame he came up with this ******** idea instead of something more useful. Polarised weapons are an answer to a question noone was asking.

And this lateral solution generation is probably being applied to other areas of the game as well like instead of making concise and predictable changes that everyone wanted they're doing tangential modifications to things noone cared about. Perhaps to get people to use them more (but secretly noone ever will because putting a ribbon on a turd doesn't fix the problem of it being a turd).
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#273 - 2015-01-25 13:45:03 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
"Gorski pointed out that the Drake is a joke compared to what it used to be. CCP Fozzie replied that of
course it was a joke compared to where it used to be, since it used to be incredibly dominant. He said
that the current meta is geared towards speed and that penalizes battlecurisers and battleship usage for
small gangs and solo, but that not every ship needs to be balanced into every prevailing meta." -CSM Winter Day 3 Minutes

Obviously there was probably a lot of discussion, and I might just be a little pessimistic, but I'm reading this as there are no plans for balance passes to address the Drake, which touches on HM's. I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised but at this point it definitely seems like CCP has little to know interest in the goings on of this thread. Thoughts?


The problem with the Drake is that the Raven exists and obsoletes it in almost every-way except for the price tag (a t2 fitted raven costs about 30 million isk more than t2 fit Drake after insurance) and slightly better Warp Speed, which are mostly off-grid advantages, on-grid. The Raven is faster than the Drake, with much higher damage output, better tank, not damage locked into only using Kinetic like the Drake is, the only disadvantage the Raven really has is the slower lock time, but you can get the lock speed of a Drake on the Raven with the Same tank of the Drake if that's what you're after by fitting sensor boosters, which still leaves you with a ship which is faster and higher non-kinetic locked damage.

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elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#274 - 2015-01-25 15:42:11 UTC
Tusker Crazinski wrote:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
. He said
that the current meta is geared towards speed and that penalizes battlecurisers and battleship usage for
small gangs and solo


#1: lol wat? first of all for small gangs and solo speed has always been and will always be dominant. simply put a fast ship can dictate range, escape predators and catch prey.

#2: secondly this game currently favors weapons that apply damage regardless of target speed and range. IE drones and LML / RLML.

and by speed do you mean Drone boats? they're not that fast matter in fact they're some of the slowest cruisers in the game. the issue is they out run anything that can out gun them (which is not much) and, and anything that can catch them they can apply perfect damage to out tank out nuet and generally face **** anything on grid.

3#: BSes don't suck, CBCs suck because most of them got nerfed in to the ground.


#1: true there isn't any difference from last year, the year before that and so forth. That is the tactic of all good pilots fighting numbers since getting caught gets you killed

#2: May I add that light missiles do apply as close to 100% of their damage as we can get, hence my unpopular proposal of applying that to all of them.

Heavy missiles used to be a long range weapon system. Now the Ferox makes jokes about Drakes and the Drake looks very sad at the end of the docking ports pilots leave them in.

Suitiona is right out the Raven except for the pricetag which brings me to
#3: and ontop of that they made them twice as expensive as they for with no reason, hence James' threadnaught about battleships and battlecruisers.

Just to add my 2 isk here.

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