EVE General Discussion

All the talk about EVE player base being different from other MMOs' player bases is based on the defensive "I/my friends are special" thought processes and not reality.

Now, on the WiS/EVA/avatar gameplay itself... though I'll take important detour to it.

The reason it did not work out when it was approached before was because the way they approached it was appalling. Basically, CCP itself was not working well as company and was producing substandard quality. This was not just with WiS, but also with the other parts of the game. There were some successes, sure, but those were not because of how the company worked, but despite of it.

Having said that, CCP has changed and I am more optimistic about how the company functions. New way of working seems to be having positive effect and company feels rejuvenated. I finally begin to have faith on the EVE's long term development. This is the company that has possibility to improve sov system, POSes and all other things that people have complained about - and also able to bring in new features.

One of the promised features has been shared account structure for various games (both existing and upcoming) in EVE universe. Having ties between various games is important, since I think that WiS features should tie more into Project Legion than EVE by the very virtue of it having avatar gameplay with shooting people and stuff in its core. Shooting here is important, since for WiS to be successful it needs to have fully functional combat mechanics - interacting violently with both other players and environment. Other stuff would be needed to make it all well rounded, but without combat it would be like bird without wings.

Other things I would like it (Legion/WiS/whatever) to have includes:
*exploration of vessels and structures for loot, salvage and insights into the EVE universe
*sneaking that is more sophisticated than cloaking in EVE. I'd prefer Alien: Isolation style, though everything that has come before in Dust needs to be taken into account
*possibly even sneaking aboard other players' vessels so you can hopefully get onto hostile station for the next two points (for maximum effect in Null/Wormholes)
*hacking
*combination of the above so you can steal information from other corporations
*trading, preferably in unified market between all the games (probably pipe dream)
*industry, preferably in unified industry side (see above)
*station environment for the times when I would feel undecided on what to do next from the list above

But truly Legion getting in the market and running is absolutely necessary for WiS to get working. The technical hurdles they need to solve there are also ones that they would need to solve in WiS. No reason to hold hopes for WiS if CCP can't cut the mustard with Legion. So, I am hoping that Legion will be fantastic product.

Now, this all may take a long time or not so long time. But I expect The Division to be out before that and that I can get my avatar based shooting/exploration fix from that before Legion/WiS comes out some day. And Seagull, you and your teams have done so far excellent job and I hope you can even do a lot greater jobs in the future.

Putting words in my mouth. Tsk, tsk, tsk. I want to shoot people in exploration environment. Sometimes. I am more of sneaking and hacking sort of person, so I would do those. Granted, I did not say a word about whether some areas should be designated as non-combat areas (certainly!), but nowhere did I say I would shoot people on stations.

That was rather my point above. You aren't enhancing or bringing more people to EVE by adding non-EVE things into the client.

New EVE stuff = fine. I remember when there were not wormholes or incursions or marauders etc, when the scanning systems was different and such. Adding to the game, evolving the game, making the game more of what it is, that's ok.

Adding some crap that has nothing to do with what the game is about in the (vain and naive) hope that it will attract people who don't already like the core theme of EVE Online, THAT is the bad idea.

There are plenty of human beings out there that might like EVE if they tried it (with all due respect to CCP, their marketing sucks, why would you make a unique non-traditional MMO then mostly advertize it to traditional 'how do i level up' MMO players??). CCP should be (and now IS) focusing on getting those types of people rather than 'over-broadening' their game trying to have an all in one mess.


With Legion and Phoenix, CCP is finally doing the right thing. Same thing Wargamming is doing with their "World" games (instead of ******* up WoT with ships and planes, they made separate games for people who like ships and planes). CCp is making games for people who like to fly space fighters or walk around on legs as opposed to trying to cram all of that into our main game.

Still that isn't good enough for some, and well, that's just to bad. But thanks for continuing to sub/plex despite your disappointment in CCP

See, that is your mistake, you don't get it.

The poster you snidely quoted gave a list of very EvE-like features walking in stations could provide, and you immediately zeroed in, whimpering pathetically at the thought that pvp might be involved. That is Eve. Wherever you are, PvP might very well be involved.

Hilariously, you earlier took a swipe at Crumplecorn for talking about WiS like it was some other game being tacked half-heartedly to the side of EvE, yet by your immediate disdain the second someone mentions anything that might bring PvP in to stations, you revealed that you actually do indeed want that other game - you want a safe little game you can potter around in your dress-up doll clothes, where no-one can harm you. That's not EvE.

I've always been very clear on my stance on WiS; I have nothing against the principle, as long as it is EvE to the core, with all the risks, dangers, and potential for shinanigans that comes with it. Last time CCP tried it, they faceplanted hard by their faliure to understand what they were supposed to be doing. A lot of us are going to make damn sure they don't do that again.

Indeed there are, that is why I play many games that are not EVE.

You can't say WiS is crap when you can't imagine all the things that would come from it. Emergent things.

As for things that aren't super duper cool space ships... who doesn't know Hacking was protyped as a card game?

They tried that, EVE players weren't buying even though for YEARS those same players ask for walking in stations.. This is why.. CCP wanted to provide this all-in-one experience and players thought (some of you still think) they wanted it. But when the time came, people balked, because in this game (as in every other aspect of life), people actually want a smaller, more focused and 'good' experience. People are horrible when it comes to predicting what they want.

This is why EVE (a game with only space ships) is still here when the other space games that tried to do it all either folded (SWG), are barely limping along (Star Trek Online) or are considered disappointments (SWTOR).


If you want to walk around stuff, CCP (having learned it's lesson) will now provide you with Legion (of phoenix if your rather pilot a fighter rather than be Captain of a ship). Other companies that make different things learned the same lesson, instead of screwing with the recipe for a prize winning spaghetti sauce, they leave their flagship product moslty alone and add new products along side (lke Garlic and Herb spagetti sauce or Chunky or 'Old World').

No, you are putting this completely out of perspective.

People wanted it, because CCP made them hot for it.

What happened, was that CCP halted pretty much every development for the buggy game
... the famous :18 MONTHS: ...
and instead released ONE ROOM that provided nothing,
had GREED IS GOOD on their asses
and everyone thought WTF ARE YOU ******* KIDDING US???


Please, at least stick to actual reality. CCP wanted to provide an all-in-one experience and the reason
why this whole **** did not work out was because CCP completely ****** it up.

The "time" as you put it ... "but when the time came" ... NEVER actually came!

Nope!

If they had provided a proper experience, proper Ambulation,
sane prices, hell, AN ACTUAL EXPANSION WORTH CALLING IT SUCH ...

... the people would have accepted it!


I don't give a crap about WiS,
I don't want those people it would attract,
but your whole post is complete and utter bullshit.


Don't bullshit around, thanks.

This is right on the money.

Likewise I'd be quite happy with it as a mere social feature and would pay for it.

But the more practical aspects the more popular it'd be and the greater percentage of supporters. Eve is notorious (imo) for antisocial folks, just try saying hi in local most times: the silence in reply is often deafening. Not counting trade hubs of course, lol.

Ordinarily people like me, an avatar enthusiast and supporter of avatar gameplay, would be told to go back to [insert random avatar based game here], not dissimilar to Jenn's early comment asking what another poster was doing in a spaceship game if they want WiS style stuff. But you see most people who are into that stuff are also into pvp, pve, industry, etc. and that is why they're playing a spaceship game. They already love EVE as it is.

But they, like me (and like CCP once proudly did), merely see EVE's potential to be something much more and want to encourage that.

I'm not going to buy into the arguments that it's wasteful dev resources, or will bring some low-class of players here. That's all bs really, opposition to this kind of thing honestly just comes down to personal prejudice and a desire to keep EVE just the way that individual likes it. And neither of those are in anyway new here or unique to WiS.

My thoughts are that some form of avatar-based gameplay or interaction is inevitable. Not only because it's what a lot of others have or are doing but because it's already happening here. You see the more avatar related things that are gradually released the more people begin to enjoy them, and the less stigma is attached. Eventually people will start wanting to actually do stuff with these things they've spent so much time and money on.

So, brace yourselves.