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Where do you draw the line?
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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2015-01-03 20:45:22 UTC
You don't have to draw the line, there are plenty of them in C1 WHs.
Sorry, couldn't resist.

More seriously, I draw it where I still can handle things.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#82 - 2015-01-03 21:20:47 UTC
Xerxes Fehrnah wrote:
My question for you is what code of conduct or rules do you obey in-game that are not required by the game mechanics? When I started Eve, I tried to be nice to people the way I am in real life... helping people... basically a big boy scout. These days... I will still help a newbie, but I find myself losing concern for my public image as a good guy.


I'm nice to people I care about. I ignore people I don't know unless they're a potential threat to me, in which case I do my best to avoid them. If I think I can kill people who aren't people I care about, I will.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Scion Lex
The Unspoken Ones
Hole Control
#83 - 2015-01-03 21:54:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Scion Lex
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
Scion Lex wrote:
Posting With Alt wrote:
I am immortal. I am a capsuleer.

What need have I for morality?


well integrity is a commodity while treachery is in abundance. Therefore, integrity is profitable due to demand. In otherwords, having some form of morality can help your bottom line. Especally, over the long term. Do you need it? Well, of course not. In fact, the less of it you use the better I look and the more isk I make. So ty.

It would amuse me if you applied that concept to EVE.

"I didn't gank that shuttle with 50+ PLEX in it, therefore, I make more ISK than you."


Naturally, your looking at the short veiw. Your comparison has no context in relation to my statement. Again, as usual. What I am referring to is to the value [and power] of social contract. But since you can't think past your own nose....or be bothered to post with a main, it doesn't surprise me your lack of understanding is displayed in the form of an irrelevant and snide comment. Such lack of vision generally works to my advantage.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#84 - 2015-01-03 23:15:10 UTC
Scion Lex wrote:
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
Scion Lex wrote:
Posting With Alt wrote:
I am immortal. I am a capsuleer.

What need have I for morality?


well integrity is a commodity while treachery is in abundance. Therefore, integrity is profitable due to demand. In otherwords, having some form of morality can help your bottom line. Especally, over the long term. Do you need it? Well, of course not. In fact, the less of it you use the better I look and the more isk I make. So ty.

It would amuse me if you applied that concept to EVE.

"I didn't gank that shuttle with 50+ PLEX in it, therefore, I make more ISK than you."


Naturally, your looking at the short veiw. Your comparison has no context in relation to my statement. Again, as usual. What I am referring to is to the value [and power] of social contract. But since you can't think past your own nose....or be bothered to post with a main, it doesn't surprise me your lack of understanding is displayed in the form of an irrelevant and snide comment. Such lack of vision generally works to my advantage.

It was a joke.

Not a snide remark.

I really don't see how people make generalisations about character over such a comment.
But... You didn't see the joking manner in which the comment had intended so, well, *shrugs.
Vyl Vit
#85 - 2015-01-04 00:12:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
It's a wishful-thinking fallacy born in the computer gaming age (where you have a "virtual reality") that you can have two sets of values; apply one in-game, apply the other in life. Don't kid yourself. If you'd do it in EVE, you'd do it in real life. If you'd do it in real life, you'd do it in EVE. People like to claim they have that sort of supreme self-control, and they may even believe it themselves, but the truth of the matter is, one is who one is regardless.

Can someone become a new person? This is a subject of great debate in many circles - be born again, overcome, adapt. Yet, it is a subject of debate, just as is "are there ghosts" and "does this make me look fat?" Even were it true, that "new person" would then become the person. People who refute this are saying more about how little they know of themselves, psychology and human behavior, than they are about anything that's remotely true.

Where do I draw what line? I see no lines. I am who I am and behave accordingly - consciously and sub-consciously....
...just like you.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Paranoid Loyd
#86 - 2015-01-04 00:16:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Vyl Vit wrote:
If you'd do it in EVE, you'd do it in real life. If you'd do it in real life, you'd do it in EVE.

Yep, I just destroyed a trailer truck full of loot on the way to work this morning. Might also take one out on the way home if I find one profitable enough. Roll

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#87 - 2015-01-04 00:17:13 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
It's a wishful thinking fallacy born in the computer gaming age (where you have a "virtual reality") that you can have two sets of values; apply one in game, apply the other in life. Don't kid yourself. If you'd do it in EVE, you'd do it in real life. If you'd do it in real life, you'd do it in EVE. People like to claim they have that sort of supreme self-control, and they may even believe it themselves, but the truth of the matter is, one is who one is regardless.

Can someone become a new person? This is a subject of great debate in many circles - be born again, overcome, adapt. Yet, it is a subject of debate, just as is "are there ghosts" and "does the make me look fat?" Even were it true, that "new person" would them become the person. People who refute this are saying more about how little they know of themselves, psychology and human behavior, than they are about anything that's remotely true.

Where do I draw what line? I see no lines. I am who I am and behave accordingly - consciously and sub-consciously....
...just like you.

And yet, people DO apply two different sets of values.

Philosophical ideas are cool, but yeah. In this case, you're saying that if someone goes on a kill-everyone-on-sight rampage in EVE, they'd be able to do it in real life.
Vyl Vit
#88 - 2015-01-04 00:18:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
If you'd do it in EVE, you'd do it in real life. If you'd do it in real life, you'd do it in EVE.

Yep, I just destroyed a trailer truck full of loot on the way to work this morning. Roll
Would you steal? Would you lie about it later? Would you destroy property out of spite? Sure, big huge things get you caught...but in a way where you wouldn't get caught? Umm hmmm....your response was very telling indeed.

Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
And yet, people DO apply two different sets of values.

Philosophical ideas are cool, but yeah. In this case, you're saying that if someone goes on a kill-everyone-on-sight rampage in EVE, they'd be able to do it in real life.

No. They don't. That sounds great, though. You know for a fact you don't "virtually" kill anyone in EVE anyway. They come back. You DO destroy property, cause them anguish and hardship though, then tell yourself it's okay to do it.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Paranoid Loyd
#89 - 2015-01-04 00:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Vyl Vit wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
If you'd do it in EVE, you'd do it in real life. If you'd do it in real life, you'd do it in EVE.

Yep, I just destroyed a trailer truck full of loot on the way to work this morning. Roll
Would you steal? Would you lie about it later? Would you destroy property out of spite? Sure, big huge things get you caught...but in a way where you wouldn't get caught? Umm hmmm....your response was very telling indeed.
Yes, I steal all the time, just like I destroy trailer trucks.

It's not about getting caught it's about right and wrong. It is wrong to steal and destroy things IRL, it is not wrong to do it in a video game designed around doing said things.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Scion Lex
The Unspoken Ones
Hole Control
#90 - 2015-01-04 00:25:22 UTC
Given that I have blown things up on my way to work I can say that people will do what they can get away with knowningly. Therefore, if your 'job' allows you to blow up a truck full of loot.........or a car full of locals in the wrong place at wrong time, what the difference?

...as I said there are 2 rules, what a player can do and what I player can't do. In the context of that statement it is true that you are who you are regardless of your environment. You will do what you believe is in your best interests at any given time in any given enviroment. That means blowing stuff up or stealing a pen.....there is no difference. Your still you.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#91 - 2015-01-04 00:38:37 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
If you'd do it in EVE, you'd do it in real life. If you'd do it in real life, you'd do it in EVE.

Yep, I just destroyed a trailer truck full of loot on the way to work this morning. Might also take one out on the way home if I find one profitable enough. Roll



Other Fine examples of RL EVE training

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#92 - 2015-01-04 02:47:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Pok Nibin
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
If you'd do it in EVE, you'd do it in real life. If you'd do it in real life, you'd do it in EVE.

Yep, I just destroyed a trailer truck full of loot on the way to work this morning. Roll
Would you steal? Would you lie about it later? Would you destroy property out of spite? Sure, big huge things get you caught...but in a way where you wouldn't get caught? Umm hmmm....your response was very telling indeed.
Yes, I steal all the time, just like I destroy trailer trucks.

It's not about getting caught it's about right and wrong. It is wrong to steal and destroy things IRL, it is not wrong to do it in a video game designed around doing said things.
No. It's not about right and wrong. That's overly simplistic. It is about who and what you are and if you can really get outside that "just because".

The pro shrinks just rewrote their manual. They figure better than 80% of the population are sociopaths, so they had to redefine that. It seems sociopathy is a route to success in modern culture...and since the more things change, the more they stay the same...all culture for all time, so far.

There's two kinds of sociopaths. The ones who aren't afraid of getting caught, and the ones that are. Anyway, we have to believe someone when they say they're honest, and above board, and since this is EVE and we know we never trust ANYONE, you can see how far your assertions go. Not very...

Vyl's right about this. If "right and wrong" are your measure, you couldn't deny it...so...that speaks volumes right there.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Vapor Ventrillian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2015-01-04 03:25:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vapor Ventrillian
you can still educate a newbie in the realest way possible and be a good person you simply explain the mistake they made and give them a bit of advice as you destroy them. It is a game

pay attention to how your feeling and play 3 alts
1- that focuses on the positive
2- that focuses on the negative
3- that focuses purely in what you enjoy

I am the overriding controller of the Neutral Alignment in My Scope Project but I encourage the both positive and negative to occur regularly as this keep my Armada experienced in what can happen. S

o when they solo play they have a working understanding as to what is the Cyber-reality that is eve

always have a destination no matter you're preferred alignment in game

The Evil Overlord of Scope, self elected as all good overlords should be
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#94 - 2015-01-04 05:15:42 UTC
I have my own code of honor, for lack of a better term. Basically, I won't rob a corp/alliance I'm a member of, or steal from/awox/screw over a corp mate (unless they start it).

If you are not a member of my corp/alliance, or one of my small circle of friends, I will have no qualms about trying to kill you and take your stuff.

So the line is basically between me and mine, and everyone else.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#95 - 2015-01-04 05:54:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Vyl Vit wrote:
It's a wishful-thinking fallacy born in the computer gaming age (where you have a "virtual reality") that you can have two sets of values; apply one in-game, apply the other in life. Don't kid yourself. If you'd do it in EVE, you'd do it in real life. If you'd do it in real life, you'd do it in EVE. People like to claim they have that sort of supreme self-control, and they may even believe it themselves, but the truth of the matter is, one is who one is regardless.

Can someone become a new person? This is a subject of great debate in many circles - be born again, overcome, adapt. Yet, it is a subject of debate, just as is "are there ghosts" and "does this make me look fat?" Even were it true, that "new person" would then become the person. People who refute this are saying more about how little they know of themselves, psychology and human behavior, than they are about anything that's remotely true.

Where do I draw what line? I see no lines. I am who I am and behave accordingly - consciously and sub-consciously....
...just like you.


This is a simplicistic point of view.

Sometimes the unexpected happens and it defies "rules" and pre-concepts.

When I created this character I was worse in RL than I am now ("worse" being quite vague I know).
Vaerah would be the person I wanted to be but because of [enter here many reasons] I couldn't.

Then, in this fabled oh-so-harsh and oh-so-dark game I have met a big number of very nice, very helpful guys.
Just by playing decently nice, honest and straightforward, even in EvE I learned the positives outmatched the negatives by large. So why not stop playing decently nice, honest and straightforward but be decently nice, honest and straightforward?
So here I went, and had immeasurable good results in game until one day I asked myself: "It worked for RL trading: I applied the concepts learned in EvE and it worked in RL and made me RL money. So why not copy and paste behavior as well, since the results looks so sweet?"
Did that, tried steering from my ugly-ass RL attitude and... guess what... not all but a portion of guys (old and new acquaintances) changed their attitude towards me, for the better.

So, I started with RL <> EvE and incredibly enough, I found inspiration to become better in RL from EvE players.

So, "Can someone become a new person?" => Yes, at least in part.

My many thanks to EvE and the many players who made me grow and improve. In the face of the cold, harsh universe.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#96 - 2015-01-04 06:24:59 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
If you'd do it in EVE, you'd do it in real life. If you'd do it in real life, you'd do it in EVE.
Oh yeah I just hopped into my spaceship this morning and got blown the hell up, my pod got wrecked as well and then I woke up in my goo. Today was a pretty average day.

Or

Yea, I just woke up today and decided to shoot some random guys while the police were watching. Too bad they didn't have much stuff on them.
Josef Djugashvilis
#97 - 2015-01-04 13:52:22 UTC
In the sand...

This is not a signature.
Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2015-01-04 14:21:40 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
[quote=Paranoid Loyd]Would you steal? Would you lie about it later? Would you destroy property out of spite? Sure, big huge things get you caught...but in a way where you wouldn't get caught?


I return wallets with everything in it and phones IRL. In game, I will not blink taking your jet can full of ore you just spent two hours filling up while not even needing the isk. Those look like very different sets of morals to me...
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#99 - 2015-01-04 14:26:55 UTC
Xerxes Fehrnah wrote:
My question for you is what code of conduct or rules do you obey in-game that are not required by the game mechanics? When I started Eve, I tried to be nice to people the way I am in real life... helping people... basically a big boy scout. These days... I will still help a newbie, but I find myself losing concern for my public image as a good guy.


The Code of the New Order of High Sec, as all high sec players should.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#100 - 2015-01-04 15:33:54 UTC
Mostly Good... Mostly.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫