These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Broken Mechanics - Hi-sec FW stations camped by opposing militia
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-12-31 22:25:56 UTC
Just like the title says. Anyone who has visited Villore recently should be well aware of this problem. To throw in some immediate disclaimers for the "HTFU" parrots - I have no issue with hi-sec station gaming or roaming by WT's except in the case of militia stations which should by definition deny docking rights to the enemy. The fact that people can dock a large and diverse fleet in the opposing militia's stations and use it as a base of operations is patently illogical.

Furthermore, this borderline exploit seriously undermines any notion of risk vs. reward which I've been told is a cornerstone of the EVE universe. Baiting the enemy to aggress and then being able to respond with enough force to destroy ships with 50-100k ehp inside 60 seconds with the added ability to hold fire and hide in station until they once again feel safe to recommence farming kills on pods and t1 frigs - this task requires an outsized and disproportionate commitment of time and effort to counter and unless you achieve complete surprise the bad guys can just hide in YOUR OWN militia station indefinitely. Ontop of this they can use a network of CONCORD protected neutral alts to gather intel and set up safes/tacticals without exposing those to any risk short of a hastily assembled suicide gank.

Risk free kill farming should not be subsidized in EVE. Fix this, make these guys have to risk their shinies to get kills. Militia stations need to be off limits to pilots of the opposing empires.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-12-31 23:27:30 UTC
You're right, it's silly.

Anyways:

1. Use instadock and instaundock bookmarks, you'll be fine

2. Live in lowsec

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#3 - 2015-01-01 02:38:34 UTC
So, because it's highsec you can't shoot back? Can't gather some militia friends and undock your own fleet? I doubt you will be able to since no one can be bothered when it's easily avoided though.
Shiva Makoto
Blue Canary
Watch This
#4 - 2015-01-01 05:38:43 UTC
Move to low sec. Problem solved.

Oh and HTFU!
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#5 - 2015-01-01 12:24:24 UTC
Where is this "high security space" you speak of?

(You're in FW. You should live in Low Sec.)
ALUCARD 1208
Naga's Be Trippin
#6 - 2015-01-01 13:13:38 UTC  |  Edited by: ALUCARD 1208
Confirming Villore campers cant be baited and killed same dood fell for it 4 times

Make a safe around 1 au from the station and put neutral eyes on station as they agress someone or some tanked bait you send out........ warp in over heat errything and blap them

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Aleksi Bocharov
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-01-01 16:52:03 UTC
The reason they're able to do this is because.......

........most warbears live in LowSex.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#8 - 2015-01-01 17:58:04 UTC
Needed some whine with the cheese I just had. Thanks OP.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#9 - 2015-01-01 18:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
It's not just faction wars. Most warring entities use alts and spies to get set ups and intel. You have 3 characters on your account. Use your own alts if needed to get bookmarks and such.
Log out and fly an alt if you get camped in.
Scout the next gate.
Stop giving them easy kill mails.
Make them bored or make them dead.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#10 - 2015-01-01 19:55:43 UTC
if you want to pick up missions from those stations do so in a very aglile stabbed ship, and use bookmarks ditto for when using those stations to turn in LP since most people use an alt to hail the stuff from the HS stations to a trade hub.

I admit it is sort of silly that you can dock in highsec at an enemy station, but these campers are already at some big risks die to the faction navy requiring them to put a fair bit into tanking it.....get them to Agro then drop some maelstroms on them and just alpha them if it really bothers you.
Epikurus
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-01-02 00:20:47 UTC
It's easy enough to avoid but that doesn't mean it's not a silly mechanic that shouldn't be criticised as such.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-01-02 09:31:17 UTC
The only way to fix this is to buff the faction navy to faction police levels. I think.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Jurico Elemenohpe
Flipsid3 Tactics
#13 - 2015-01-02 10:06:12 UTC
I don't really see the problem with it though. They do high damage, they have good tank. The only method to "avoid" them for longer than 20s I know about is going far away so they need to slowboat 200k+, and it's infinitely repeatable.
Or you can bring a fleet w/ logi n stuff.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-01-02 20:23:57 UTC
So, what I've got here so far is lots of advice for moving in and out of that station safely, some gratuitous "HTFU" and "live in lowsec," and a couple of bait myrm killmails (They lose those all the time that's the point).

I have not lost a ship to these guys in months. I don't go to Villore at peak hours; If I do go there it's with a long range DPS ship to poke them for fun. Getting other people to go after these guys, aside from the fact that Galmil has tunnel vision for killing T1 frigs and dessies in lowsec, is that it simply requires a disproportionate effort. A massive amount of organization and strategy is required to bait them off station and actually entice them to undock shinies and then drop enough tackle, logi, and DPS on them to pick up those faction BS killmails whilst preventing them from escaping and not losing too many ships of your own.

The point is not that this tactic can be avoided. The point is that they are able to farm killmails off of new players and veteran players getting lazy while assuming a level of risk to themselves that is disproportionate to the reward. And it does not make sense in the context of the faction warfare arena for anyone to be able to operate freely out of their enemy's militia station. It doesn't make sense, and it makes the game less interesting than if they were incentivized to take a bit more risk with their 2B ISK faction BS.

Faction Navy doesn't need a buff, even in 0.5. I have no problem with enemy militia raiding into enemy Hi-Sec and harassing 0.5 systems, which are by definition supposed to be less secure anyway. My only issue is with the huge advantage and potential for risk-averse kill farming that comes with being able to live inside an enemy militia station in Hi-Sec. This game DOES NOT need more risk-averse PvP.

And I will live in Lo-Sec when your markets don't suck and your gates aren't constantly camped by pirate blobs and fighter-assisted instalockers. I'm working on having enough ships docked up around Lo-Sec to be able to quickly form up for fleet doctrines; I have no interest in living there.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-01-02 20:25:58 UTC
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:
I don't really see the problem with it though. They do high damage, they have good tank. The only method to "avoid" them for longer than 20s I know about is going far away so they need to slowboat 200k+, and it's infinitely repeatable.
Or you can bring a fleet w/ logi n stuff.


Faction navy in 0.5 is a joke; it comes in waves of 2 frigates and 2 cruisers that do laughable damage and are easily tanked/destroyed by anything larger than a destroyer.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-01-03 08:23:01 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
And I will live in Lo-Sec when your markets don't suck and your gates aren't constantly camped by pirate blobs and fighter-assisted instalockers. I'm working on having enough ships docked up around Lo-Sec to be able to quickly form up for fleet doctrines; I have no interest in living there.
NPC Corp guy whines about a well-known FW mechanics quirk, that nobody really cares about.

Gets good advice anyway, but isn't satisfied and proceeds to whine some more about living in lowsec.


Yet wants to 'form-up' to join fleets organized by FW Corps that live in lowsec. What?


With your attitude, I hereby change my advice to:

. GTFO of our fleets

. Actually, biomass

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#17 - 2015-01-03 11:21:10 UTC
Even though the mechanic is backwards. I quite like it - adds flare and allows for harassment in highsec. If only you could be some place not in high sec that would have other people who could fight them off with you. *Shrug*
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#18 - 2015-01-03 15:31:13 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
We're too busy fighting the war in low sec to deal with high sec station docking games.

Let the high sec experts deal with it.

Orvolle and Osmeden (both 0.7) have a Gallente Militia corporation (Guardians of the Gate) that loves to kill Caldari that are in high sec.
1. Live there if you want to base out of high sec.
2. Hook up with GoG if you want to help kill high sec WTs.
3. Tell the militia noobs to move to Orvolle (FDU station) and Osmeden as well.

Next question.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#19 - 2015-01-03 16:30:02 UTC
I always thought it was a bit ridiculous that you could dock in militia owned stations in highsec as well. Nothing quite kills moral for a new FW pilot then grinding your plexs and level 1/2/3's, the thrill of doing your first LP transaction and having some good isk in your cargohold only to get blapped on the undock.

(This coming from someone who spent the better part of 2 months becoming the terror of the Jita-Icho route.)
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#20 - 2015-01-03 17:51:10 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
I always thought it was a bit ridiculous that you could dock in militia owned stations in highsec as well. Nothing quite kills moral for a new FW pilot then grinding your plexs and level 1/2/3's, the thrill of doing your first LP transaction and having some good isk in your cargohold only to get blapped on the undock.

(This coming from someone who spent the better part of 2 months becoming the terror of the Jita-Icho route.)


That's exactly what I was going to hit on. This problem is with noobs that join the militia straight after completing the military wing tutorials. They have no skills, no experience, and no Isk. Just the other day I directed a noob that asked for direction to Old Man Star. I had a nice chuckle, as this pilot's name also happened to be Icarus something. The guy took my advice and was promptly sent back to highsec. The fast way. I had another, though slightly guilty, laugh.

X, your 3rd recommendation is interesting. One of the reasons people stop chatting in general militia is because they see the same damn questions there over and over. Let someone else deal with it. Except, sometimes no one does and a brand new pilot is confused and mad. Mad enough to drop the game.

Militia Stations should have sentry guns always ready to shoot WT's
OR
Address the exploit that allows a player to avoid police for a good minute by warping away on-grid and back and buff militia police.

OR
Allow the players to criminally and aggression flag suspicious fellas such as WT's or Pirates and actually act as what they are supposed to represent.

We aren't vigilantes, we're soldiers damnit!
12Next page