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Can We Fix The T3 Logistics Subsystems?
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Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-12-31 07:44:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
Personally. I feel that all remote armour reppers and shield transfers and energy transfers should get their base range doubled and all range bonuses on ships should be halved.

This would fix issues on a few things including the Nestor and T3 logi subs as they still wouldn't have the range of logi but they would have a useable range to work with.

That way fitting a remote repper on something other than a logi isn't dogshitkabab crap.

I miss the good ole days of Remote Rep Battleship fights. Those were fun.
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#22 - 2014-12-31 10:41:33 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
grats you have a KM what's your point?


"You dont fly logi much do you"

You're implying that you usually use logi more than i, with this KM i can say that you're not, that's all.
Sylveria Relden
#23 - 2015-01-01 20:14:19 UTC
T3's are meant to be multi-purpose ships- i.e., "jack of all trades, master of none".

The rebalance they started a while back was meant to stop the overshadowing of T3's being overused for the roles that other ships had been created for.

T3 =/= > T2, it means that T2 is a specialized hull for a particular purpose and the intent of the T3 is that its flexible enough to change those specializations. (hence being able to swap subsystems)

There's a good reason the subsystems of T3's don't match the performance of their T2 hull counterparts.

The prices of T3 hulls and subsystems do NOT reflect the performance- it's reflective of the materials cost in order to produce the parts.

Working as intended.

TL;DR If you didn't read the entire post perhaps you're probably ADHD. (seek help)
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#24 - 2015-01-01 22:05:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
masternerdguy wrote:
Currently, they are a joke. Which is sad, because if you could get decent remote rep range out of a T3 you could use them in new and exciting ways.

Consider the Tengu's Amplification Node:

Subsystem Skill Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances per level
10% bonus to shield transporter effectiveness per level

The problem is they don't have the range needed to back up their rep amount. Although they rep more than a T2 logi, they rep at <9km range meaning they are impractical for fleet use.

Contrast the bonus on a Basilisk

Caldari Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):
150% bonus to Remote Shield Booster and Remote Capacitor Transmitter range
20% bonus to Shield Maintenance Bot transfer amount

They might not rep as much, but they rep so much further that it isn't even a contest in the real world.

The logistics subsystems feel pre-nerfed, and I think, in light of the relatively recent buffs to T1 logi, giving them a significant range bonus via the logistics subsystems would be handy.

I would suggest splitting the bonus into a range bonus of 75% per subsystem level (half what a T2 logi gets per cruiser level) and reducing the effectiveness bonus to 5% or even 3% per level.


I think part of the weirdness comes from the weird and incredibly massive difference in fitting space from the large RRs. Large armor RR uses about 500 more grid than the large shield RR, which is patently absurd in relation to how local repair and buffer modules are balanced. I think if they were brought down to the 200-300 pg range something like that might be acceptable, so we could see bonuses like this for the tengu, and similar armor swapped bonuses for the legion:

Subsystem skill bonus:
20% bonus to Remote Shield Booster and Remote Capacitor Transmitter range per level
10% bonus to Remote Shield Booster and Remote Capacitor Transmitter amount per level
10% reduction in Remote Shield Booster and Remote Capacitor Transmitter capacitor usage per level
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-01-01 23:33:52 UTC
Logistics modules need a huge range bonus. The dedicated ships shouldn't need more than a 50%-100% range bonus over the base range in order to reach out as far as they need. Logistics modules are already pretty much useless on anything other than a hull that's built for them, which contrasts heavily with all other utility high slot modules.

Strategic cruisers have excellent strategic options for employing logistics, as previously indicated in this thread. They should not repair faster than a T2 logi, that is absurd. T2 is supposed to have the top end of the raw power struggle every time. T3 should have T1 repair rate at half the range, with the ability to fit covert ops cloak and all those other fancy choices. Now THAT would be balanced.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-01-01 23:40:13 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
I think part of the weirdness comes from the weird and incredibly massive difference in fitting space from the large RRs. Large armor RR uses about 500 more grid than the large shield RR, which is patently absurd in relation to how local repair and buffer modules are balanced.

Actually the large modules are supposed to be fit on large ships. How they came to be fit to medium logi is a mystery to me but I think that medium logi should use medium modules. I think that powergrid cost reduction should be removed from T2 logi ships.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#27 - 2015-01-02 00:22:23 UTC
Sylveria Relden wrote:
T3's are meant to be multi-purpose ships- i.e., "jack of all trades, master of none".

The rebalance they started a while back was meant to stop the overshadowing of T3's being overused for the roles that other ships had been created for.

T3 =/= > T2, it means that T2 is a specialized hull for a particular purpose and the intent of the T3 is that its flexible enough to change those specializations. (hence being able to swap subsystems)

There's a good reason the subsystems of T3's don't match the performance of their T2 hull counterparts.

The prices of T3 hulls and subsystems do NOT reflect the performance- it's reflective of the materials cost in order to produce the parts.

Working as intended.


Can we finally get a thread about T3s without the age old rhetoric dredged up in every single thread??
Thank you!

T3 logi sub needs help, double the default repper range would make them useable without making it outclass logistics.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-01-02 00:42:47 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
T3 logi sub needs help, double the default repper range would make them useable without making it outclass logistics.

No nerf to the output along with the range boost? Surely You're Joking.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Sylveria Relden
#29 - 2015-01-02 00:45:49 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
T3 logi sub needs help, double the default repper range would make them useable without making it outclass logistics.

No nerf to the output along with the range boost? Surely You're Joking.


I see what you did there ^ :P

TL;DR If you didn't read the entire post perhaps you're probably ADHD. (seek help)
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#30 - 2015-01-02 01:11:23 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
T3 logi sub needs help, double the default repper range would make them useable without making it outclass logistics.

No nerf to the output along with the range boost? Surely You're Joking.


A minor balance of the HP subsystem is all that is needed to balance some T3s (basically make the 10% HP bonus a 5% HP bonus).

No other nerfs would be necessary, in my opinion. After all, we're playing Ishtars Online right now, not Proteii Online.

Also, I never joke. And don't call me Shirley. Blink

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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