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Crime & Punishment

 
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War on Gankers

First post
Author
Zepher Helen Hawat
Malfurion Mining
#101 - 2014-12-31 05:00:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Zepher Helen Hawat
Veers Belvar wrote:

to make...sorry working long hours and wrote this on my phone on the train....I will expand further.

War in Eve is not similar to a RL war. When Germany invades Poland in September 1939, victory conditions are clearly set. Either Germany will conquer Poland and turn it into a vassal state, or Poland will successfully resist the invasion.

War in Eve is fundamentally different. Dying is of little consequence, there is certainly no negative infinity utility as in real life. All material losses can easily be replaced, and simply docking up and playing on alts is a perfectly viable and consequence free approach. Conquering territory is impossible in highsec, and of little consequence in nullsec. Ditto for killboard statistics.

To wit, wars between code and elite pve players are not decided by killboard statistics. Code is trying to make highsec pve unprofitable to the point where players are forced to move to low/null, while the pve players simply want to continue making isk with minimal exposure to pvp. Victory here will depend on the efficacy of code in making highsec substantially riskier for pve. Killboards and damage are irrelevant, its all about making an impact on broad highsec pve play.

Here code has failed spectacularly...missioning and inucrsioning are as lucrative as ever. Mining has been minimally impacted. And even with a bunch of hauler kills, goods are still broadly declining in price. PvE play is just as easy and profitable as ever, and code keeps on losing day in and day out. No trillion isk of damages can ever change that fact.



Interesting. And if that is their main goal, I would agree that in regards to ISK, it seems business as usual. To play on words... the spice flows.

But... if their goal is to change mind sets, to make players stay at the keyboard, to have miners tank their ships, then I'd say that they have had an impact on Hi-Sec.... not complete. There is still more than a few fools out there running multi billion cargo through Uedama AFK, but there are also a few that have learned the lesson after getting their fingers burnt.

And there is also one more reason that does not include ISK or changing players habits... some people just like to see the world burn, and there is more than a few systems burning in EVE.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#102 - 2014-12-31 05:05:03 UTC
loyalanon wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
loyalanon wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
. They want toake pve risky in highsec.


What is a toake?


to make...sorry working long hours and wrote this on my phone on the train....I will expand further.

War in Eve is not similar to a RL war. When Germany invades Poland in September 1939, victory conditions are clearly set. Either Germany will conquer Poland and turn it into a vassal state, or Poland will successfully resist the invasion.

War in Eve is fundamentally different. Dying is of little consequence, there is certainly no negative infinity utility as in real life. All material losses can easily be replaced, and simply docking up and playing on alts is a perfectly viable and consequence free approach. Conquering territory is impossible in highsec, and of little consequence in nullsec. Ditto for killboard statistics.

To wit, wars between code and elite pve players are not decided by killboard statistics. Code is trying to make highsec pve unprofitable to the point where players are forced to move to low/null, while the pve players simply want to continue making isk with minimal exposure to pvp. Victory here will depend on the efficacy of code in making highsec substantially riskier for pve. Killboards and damage are irrelevant, its all about making an impact on broad highsec pve play.

Here code has failed spectacularly...missioning and inucrsioning are as lucrative as ever. Mining has been minimally impacted. And even with a bunch of hauler kills, goods are still broadly declining in price. PvE play is just as easy and profitable as ever, and code keeps on losing day in and day out. No trillion isk of damages can ever change that fact.


tldr.

https://soundcloud.com/loyalanon/veers-tears-1

remember this? and you rage logged?


I remember tearing up multiple agents in a clear debate victory, and leaving once the immature kids showed up and started asking weird personal questions.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#103 - 2014-12-31 05:06:56 UTC
Zepher Helen Hawat wrote:



Interesting. And if that is their main goal, I would agree that in regards to ISK, it seems business as usual. To play on words... the spice flows.

But... if their goal is to change mind sets, to make players stay at the keyboard, to have miners tank their ships, then I'd say that they have had an impact on Hi-Sec.... not complete. There is still more than a few fools out there running multi billion cargo through Uedama AFK, but there are also a few that have learned the lesson after getting their fingers burnt.

And there is also one more reason that does not include ISK or changing players habits... some people just like to see the world burn, and there is more than a few systems burning in EVE.


Not sure where you hang out...but from my vantage point miners still are mostly afk...ditto for haulers...and mission and incursion runners are always at the keyboard anyway.

As far as tanking ships....a) most people don't and b) those who do are worried about a lot more than some predictable and easily spotted agents.
412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#104 - 2014-12-31 05:21:20 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

I remember tearing up


Me too, it was glorious.

A True Champion of High Security Space

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#105 - 2014-12-31 05:26:43 UTC
Roll
412nv Yaken wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

I remember tearing up


Me too, it was glorious.

Zepher Helen Hawat
Malfurion Mining
#106 - 2014-12-31 05:35:41 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Roll
412nv Yaken wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

I remember tearing up


Me too, it was glorious.



Come on, that was funny!


Kids these days. No sense of humor.
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#107 - 2014-12-31 07:09:01 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
The Code always wins.

1. Any form of direct counter-action will be labeled "tears", "rage", etc. which they will count as a victory. The Code wins.
2. Discrediting any of their leadership will simply result in a new Code adherent taking up the banner, citing how the discredited members had strayed from The Code. The Code wins.
3. Denying Code pilots targets through smart piloting means that players are playing the game intelligently and at-keyboard, which is the stated purpose of the Law of Hisec. The Code wins.
4. Doing nothing means Code pilots just keep ganking. The Code wins.

There is literally no way to defeat them. At best, you can try to intervene and save their targets or take shots at gank ships in progress, but neither of those qualifies as a defeat to Code adherents even if successful. It's the classic no-lose scenario. A masterful move on the part of James315 and CODE. leadership.


Nah...easy to beat them...just keep on doing your PvE activities in complete safety in highsec while minting isk and rubbing it in their faces. Call out their RL harassment, bonus rooms, AT forfeit, and unhinged leadership. As much as they claim to not care this absolutely infuriates them, as can be seen from the grr Veers rage. "Winning" against CODE is trivially easy...they don't even pose real competition.


Complete safety in high sec...lol...oh Veers, you do make me laugh sometimes. I think it has been well established that hi-sec is anything but safe. Personal awareness and responsibility is the key to safety...not the sec status of the system you are in. But I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't PvP to know this. Make me laugh some more Veers...pleeeeeaze Twisted

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..

Gorila Vengaza
Ol-Silly Basterds
#108 - 2014-12-31 09:59:30 UTC
I just want to Salute James 315 for sending in VEERS...

Once they get a good dose of Veers this new rebel leader will be come running to code just as I did.


Now who wants to help me catch Veers and put him back in the barn?
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#109 - 2014-12-31 10:31:18 UTC
Gate camp the chicken coop and it's a breeze.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#110 - 2014-12-31 12:35:13 UTC
Gorila Vengaza wrote:
I just want to Salute James 315 for sending in VEERS...

Once they get a good dose of Veers this new rebel leader will be come running to code just as I did.


Now who wants to help me catch Veers and put him back in the barn?


Yawn....grr veers detected.

Not to disappoint, but code doesnt have the bandwith to hunt me down and gank me. I suppose your ability to get on 57 concord killmails in a single day could change the equation.

But yes, running missions and incursions is still super safe, which means the good guys are winning.
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#111 - 2014-12-31 12:56:44 UTC
loyalanon wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
loyalanon wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
. They want toake pve risky in highsec.


What is a toake?


to make...sorry working long hours and wrote this on my phone on the train....I will expand further.

War in Eve is not similar to a RL war. When Germany invades Poland in September 1939, victory conditions are clearly set. Either Germany will conquer Poland and turn it into a vassal state, or Poland will successfully resist the invasion.

War in Eve is fundamentally different. Dying is of little consequence, there is certainly no negative infinity utility as in real life. All material losses can easily be replaced, and simply docking up and playing on alts is a perfectly viable and consequence free approach. Conquering territory is impossible in highsec, and of little consequence in nullsec. Ditto for killboard statistics.

To wit, wars between code and elite pve players are not decided by killboard statistics. Code is trying to make highsec pve unprofitable to the point where players are forced to move to low/null, while the pve players simply want to continue making isk with minimal exposure to pvp. Victory here will depend on the efficacy of code in making highsec substantially riskier for pve. Killboards and damage are irrelevant, its all about making an impact on broad highsec pve play.

Here code has failed spectacularly...missioning and inucrsioning are as lucrative as ever. Mining has been minimally impacted. And even with a bunch of hauler kills, goods are still broadly declining in price. PvE play is just as easy and profitable as ever, and code keeps on losing day in and day out. No trillion isk of damages can ever change that fact.


tldr.

https://soundcloud.com/loyalanon/veers-tears-1

remember this? and you rage logged?

Sounds like he keeps his composure the entire time and enjoyed the debate. But I suppose if I had a sub 90 IQ with severe personality issues I might see this as tears too!
Black Pedro
Mine.
#112 - 2014-12-31 13:10:49 UTC
Steppa Musana wrote:

Sounds like he keeps his composure the entire time and enjoyed the debate. But I suppose if I had a sub 90 IQ with severe personality issues I might see this as tears too!

What's up with this hate obsession you have for loyal? It isn't very becoming.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#113 - 2014-12-31 15:35:25 UTC
Running missions is only as safe as the self control of the mission runner involved.
Incursions I cannot vouch for.
To be fair, soundcloud didn't really sound like anyone got to the point of tears on either side. Quite a bit of disagreeing involved, yes. Semantics were violated. Hares left in therapy, yes. I do not and never will accept Veers opinion on what should be in high sec as right, but I find the audio lacking as proof when it comes to tears.
Sadly I have nothing joyful to offer Veers today. Only a dozen MTU kills, a newbro thorax who came to bail out his senior... only to be thrown to the wolves (me) and bailed on. I gave him happy good advice on how not to die to my kind in the future and some fitting tips that were not rainbow oriented. I then promptly went out and started a fight with a proteus and lost.
Mission running is NOT safe, but it's also not a guaranteed loss for the runner if they want to fight for what they want.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#114 - 2014-12-31 16:11:23 UTC
Winning is subjective.

Players can easily win if they:

1. Don't go AFK
2. Watch d-scan
3. Watch local chat
4. Set known CODE members as red.
5. Dock up when you see them in system.
6. Don't sit still in a asteroid belt or stay at 0 on your mission gates.
7. Don't be a douche.

Of course, this is what CODE has been trying to educate players on for years.
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#115 - 2014-12-31 16:59:26 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Winning is subjective.

Players can easily win if they:

1. Don't go AFK
2. Watch d-scan
3. Watch local chat
4. Set known CODE members as red.
5. Dock up when you see them in system.
6. Don't sit still in a asteroid belt or stay at 0 on your mission gates.
7. Don't be a douche.

Of course, this is what CODE has been trying to educate players on for years.
Entirely too much effort involved for some people....

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#116 - 2014-12-31 17:02:40 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Winning is subjective.

Players can easily win if they:

1. Don't go AFK
2. Watch d-scan
3. Watch local chat
4. Set known CODE members as red.
5. Dock up when you see them in system.
6. Don't sit still in a asteroid belt or stay at 0 on your mission gates.
7. Don't be a douche.

Of course, this is what CODE has been trying to educate players on for years.


Not worth the effort....too low of a probability of getting ganked to justify dscanning
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#117 - 2014-12-31 18:01:34 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Although I will admit the amount of CODE. in C&P is getting to be tiresome.


The PvP Expert thing is hilarious though.


We're tiresome, yet you like the content we produce? :confused:



I get tired of C&P being filled with at least the majority of CODE. stuff. I'd like to see more content creator


I like the fact you guys can lead such a large player base in Highsec. I like most of the content you provide the ganks and such. But I am personally rather burnt out from it thats all.

CODE. Makes a great Villain, which EVE needs. So you get my support by that alone.


CODE is interesting. But to much of it can be mildly annoying. Rather see CODE post then Veer or Lucas posts though.


Well no other groups I have a leader like James 315 who writes well and chronicles the adventures of his group in great detail.
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#118 - 2014-12-31 21:00:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Jerr
grrr CODE. grr AcceptedPlayByCCP(tm) grr ebilNerds

'nuff said

time to add some shares
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2014-12-31 22:02:54 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Winning is subjective.

Players can easily win if they:

1. Don't go AFK
2. Watch d-scan
3. Watch local chat
4. Set known CODE members as red.
5. Dock up when you see them in system.
6. Don't sit still in a asteroid belt or stay at 0 on your mission gates.
7. Don't be a douche.

Of course, this is what CODE has been trying to educate players on for years.

These are entirely unreasonable to those that want to push a button to get free money.

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein

Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#120 - 2015-01-01 01:34:09 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Winning is subjective.

Players can easily win if they:

1. Don't go AFK
2. Watch d-scan
3. Watch local chat
4. Set known CODE members as red.
5. Dock up when you see them in system.
6. Don't sit still in a asteroid belt or stay at 0 on your mission gates.
7. Don't be a douche.

Of course, this is what CODE has been trying to educate players on for years.

These are entirely unreasonable to those that want to push a button to get free money.


They are unreasonable given the mechanics of highsec. Haulers and miners are usually afk, because no effort is needed to make isk. Mission runners and incursion runners aren't really susceptible to ganking, and so have no need to take precautions.