Crime & Punishment

Devs are often very careful what they post on this forum (and on other sites) because they speak for the company. It's particularly true of Falcon, what with him being the community manager.

Lucas confirmed as scaremongerer and liar. Dinsdale 1.4

I'm beginning to think that Dinsdale isn't actually a person, it's like being The Phantom. But more mealy mouthed.

That states noone can combat yo, which is vastly different from "Nothing can be done about ganking". Petty much the only option if you don't already have ECM on grid locked and some excellent luck, is to evade by webbing or pre-emptively avoiding ganks. Actually fighting gankers is meaningless. It doesn't matter if you blow up a ship here and there, and even if you chase them you can't get to their targets before they do.

So no, you misunderstanding a post isn't me contradicting anything.



Also, untrue. If anything they're finally working towards giving highsec the nerfs it deserves, and has for a decade. They've been trying to push people into other areas of the game for a while now, especially with the industry changes. It wouldn't surprise me if they went after Incursions in the near future.[/quote]So you mean like removing awoxing, that's not making highsec easier?

Actually those stats showed something else too. Of all players that join, 10% go to group content, 40% go into solo (level your raven) content, and 50% leave within a month or two. About the 40%, they state that "many" of them end up leaving, but they don't give a figure. Now if you look at that, it means that if even 75% of all of those players that go into solo play leave, and not a single player from the group play leave, they are still even on the number of players going to each. While yes, they want their NPE to gear people towards group play, that certainly doesn't mean that PVE is not getting any love going forward. With awoxing going, it;s likely that highec PVE groups will more frequently appear, allowing people to do both PVE and group content as they do them together. For this reason I'm betting that wardec mechanics will be looked at prior to ganking (I've heard rumours that it's on the cards to at least be looked into next year, though none from anywhere too credible).

Well that's complete bull. PVE players don't hurt the game. They may hurt your idea of EVE because you think everyone should just throw themselves on the fire, but they are a pretty vital part of EVE. Code certainly hurt the game more by harvesting the tears they love so much. It hardly gives EVE a decent reputation when new players join, get trolled and publicly humiliated.

So 5 pages of people posting, some of whom claim to have gankers with high SP (not necessarily a main - I have 3 alts all with over 70m SP). A read through and a quick tally - giving players over 5m sp who don't claim to be a main or alt the benefit of the doubt of being a main, 61% of the responses in that thread are alts. So I refer you to your own post as proof of the common knowledge that most gank characters are alts.

Apparently you don't speak English very well. Fighting someone, and doing something about them are 2 separate things. Evading them is doing something about them, but it's not fighting them

Stop talking bull. Just because you hate them doesn't make their gameplay style any less important. It'd be pretty hard to run and entire player run economy without PVE.

And perhaps the reasons why PVE players leave should also be looked at. Maybe they leave because bunch of antisocials like to troll them, insult them, kill them, troll them some more, then post all over their blog and forum laughing about it.

Obviously I'm in agreement with Lucas here on many of his points, the most important one being that the same ganker trolls come out to argue the same points. If you go back and read everything he and I have written it is to take an honest look at ganking from all sides, pose ideas, only to be attacked with ganker drivel.

The hard truth is Erotica 1 was banned, even though there are countless people who didn't think he should or that what he did wasn't a bannable offense. At the end of the day, all Lucas and myself, and many others are trying to say is that if certain mechanics aren't reviewed and possibly tweaked, then CCP may make changes that are over the top. Here you have two pilots who are specifically saying that ganking is a part of Eve, and if it's not addressed correctly then who can possibly know what CCP will do if enough pilots get CCP to believe that all ganking is 'griefing'.

It's more or less a shame that an open dialogue isn't possible simply because of Eve forum ganker trolls... but such is the world of the ganker. "Hey... nothing bad can happen, CCP would never do anything to disrupt my ability gank in hi-sec!" If that's your belief then fine, but be sure to ask Erotica 1 how he feels today, and my favorite part of Erotica 1's defense was that (paraphrase) "If what I was doing was wrong then CCP should've told me."

That's the point, if and when CCP decides to act they're going to do it on their terms, and the results can be ones that are avoided. Now go ahead... the ganker trolls are going to start bringing up Erotica 1 and say it has no bearing, but you're wrong. That's an admitted different level and degree of 'griefing', but at the core it's still considered 'griefing', and if CCP makes any type of decision on ganking as griefing then you could've been part of the discussion to prevent it. I doubt that will happen and instead we get to see the trolls come out. Such a shame...

It should require interaction, but expecting other players to just fly along with it is pretty ridiculous. They stopped null groups having to do that because it was slowly killing people.

As for active defense, it wouldn't necessarily mean fighting back. Active methods to try to evade for example would be more what I was thinking. Ways to break away or resist being taken down. If you've played Elite dangerous at all, the have interdiction in that, and when you interdict someone, they have an escape vector, and you kinda head to head at that. That's the kind of thing I had in mind (though obviously more EVE like, less flight sim).

Erm... no. Some fact are just facts, even if code want to argue literally everything. The funny thing is if I said the exact opposite was a fact and used that to insult them, they'd still claim it can't possibly be. Things like "destroying competition is beneficial" and "most gankers use alts" are simply common facts. Everyone know them to be true. Perhas in the future, with the removal of clone costs, gankers might use mains more, then you guys can come back her and say "Lucas, now you're wrong!"

Wrong. You're misrepresenting the stats. It's the 50% who don't go to either that quit after a month. Go ahead, go rewatch it. All he states in that presentation about the 40% is that "many" end up leaving. No timescale is given and no indication of what "many" is. From what he states when presenting those stats it's just as possible that more players stay for PVE than group content.

I've not stated that we should lessen the opportunity for group content - that's you once again misrepresenting things. All I've stated is that ganking, along with many other mechanics, needs to be balanced out, and that griefing needs to be more strictly controlled. You love to fly off on your tangents pretending I've leapt in saying "remove ganking, make PVE the best", but it's simply not true.

Where have I advocated the removal of every form of PVP form highsec? All I've said is that ganking needs a balance pass, and that wardecs probably will bet a balance pass.

I can only assume you are trolling at this point, I'm done responding to any parts of your post which are obvious troll. It's either that or you're reading someone else's posts and thinking they are mine.

Wrong in what way? Do you think no mechanics need to be balanced, or do you think all mechanics except ganking should be balanced?

You can talk about those as much as you want, go right ahead and report them and if they've legitimately said that they should be banned. Much like how I supported Sohkar getting banned in the E1 situation (which he unfortunately did not). All potential griefing should be reported, and all of what CCP considers griefing should be dealt with. Like how code purposely grief people for tears and hide behind RP as an excuse.