Crime & Punishment

I don't have rhetoric. I am answering your points.

Safe log off is a way to make sure your ship doesn't hang out in space when you log off. If it were meant to be used in the way you are suggesting, then it would already work that way. The feature isn't new, and has been part of the client for a few years.

For example, I use it when I log out in a wormhole. Its not, and never was, a way to pull the plug and avoid combat.

I'm also not a dedicated ganker, and neither is the other poster.

You are pretty much raging at the entire forum community because you don't understand what the safe log off button is for, we do, and you don't agree.

So if it's not meant to be used that way and is, then that is a form of exploiting the game mechanics. Much the same way a Machariel bumping a freighter is. As for raging, I hardly think so. I'm making points while the coutnerpoints are usually never discussed, just that pilots are dumb.

If I wanted to I could say that CODE and other gankers are simply pilots who can't cut it in null sec, I don't because I don't think that's true, even though it could be for some, but certainly not the majority. I don't try to generalize every pilot in eve based on certain aspects of what they do in the game. I think the game's big enough to allow all forms of play and this just doesn't seem to be a mode of thinking for gankers. If anything disrupts their ability to blow up a freighter in hi-sec then the ganker drivel comes flying out, making personal attacks, etc. Not that the previous two posters have made any attacks against me but you don't have to search too far in this thread to find them, or on any forum for that matter for these types of attacks.

That's not a big deal, that's just the internet, but I've yet to see any pro-ganking thread that offered any type of relevant idea beyond the freighter pilots just need to be smarter. If CODE changes the way hi-sec is operated then I say... good. It's great to have villains, but even though gankers don't see their tactics as abusing the game mechanics doesn't mean others do, and if enough of them get their voices heard then CCP may make changes that hurt the game more than help it. I'm not saying my ideas are perfect with no pros and cons, just points of view that should be considered as I try to analyze the entirety of the subject of ganking objectively. As soon as a I read a ganker post that is likewise then I will give it a fair thought.


*** correction, they did get personal... oh well***

I had tacos for dinner.

I like turtle soup.

Honestly, Lucas, you are really exposing yourself here.

According to you, it is not only acceptable, but also appropriate for miners to abuse the petition system, filing reports en masse to try and force CCP to ban PvP in highsec. Because apparently non consensual PvP in highsec is automatically "griefing" and "harassment", if the victim decides so. **** the EULA, and **** impartiality, they get to decide what griefing is, not CCP's long standing rules.

Not only that, but any attempt to protest this deliberate abuse of the petition system and request that the actual, literal rules of EVE Online be followed instead... is itself admission of being a "griefer".

The pitfall of subjectivity, everybody. Give him a big hand, he's been most helpful in showing us all that carebear sentiment must never be tolerated, because it never fails to lead to Trammel.

I dined on Scallops with fried mushrooms and onions with a side of pasta.....

First off, please show me there is a problem. Surely this would manifest itself in a high percentage of freighters being ganked per day. So what is a high percentage to you?
5%? Less? How about 3 or 2?
Does the figure of them dying to suicide ganks come even close to that? You claim there is a problem, I just wonder what you base this on?


Now I have issues with your disingenuous posting. You "don't want to ban ganking", you say no one is saying the solution "is to prevent all or any means of ganking." You say "I think ganking is just fine, but just not fine the way it is."
You then proceed to ask for the removal of aggro from freighters. Allowing them to log off safely.

Well if that isn't the removal of a means of ganking, then what is? Yes here you are telling us ganking is OK, but let's nerf it anyway?

You've even said yourself, pilots would be better off with a scout or in groups. So why do we need a nerf? You seem to want to balance the game around solo play, because it so happens that group play has more power in an MMO. It is a fact that you can move a freighter through high sec with very little risk, with one friend. That's one friend. How the hell is that not acceptable? On what logical basis do we ignore that and then go on to ask for no freighter aggro instead?


Now to Concord and security.

Concord are reactive. They punish acts, they do not prevent you from starting them. If CCP intended on them preventing ganking, they would implement it.
The security is about levels of punishment, as can be seen from the response times of concord within each level of high sec.
They have no interest in the pod, because they just want to stop the crime. Once the ship is gone, their job is done and they place you on watch for a set time.

I did wonder how long it was going to be, before someone asked for Concord to pod gankers after that clone change. No cigar here for you sir, it's already been asked for. But sure why not, we could even include pilots that shoot rats. Have rats shoot mission runners pods etc. I see this has already been brought to your attention.

The concord mechanic was created to differentiate the security of space. It was never intended to stop player interaction, merely to change the level of punishment of no consent, (flagged against the law) boat violence.

Now your talk of Exploits.

It's not unusual to find those claiming to support ganking, then asking for it to be nerfed, to also include some line that claims an exploit or two. Here is yours:
Let me make this clear now. You me and every other player, do not decide what is and is not an exploit. You use the term because you seek to elicit a certain response. One I'm giving now perhaps.
So I'll look at both mechanics.

Log off timer.
It wasn't ever a method that CCP deployed, that would allow for what you ask. You have the link, it's quite clear on the subject. But here are some bullet points.

You cannot be safely logging off while:


• You have active modules
• You're ejecting from a ship
• You have aggression from players or NPCs
• Your ship is exploding or self-destructing
• You're issuing movement commands
• You're launching or jettisoning objects
• You're joining a fleet
• You're deploying or reconnecting with drones
• You have a target lock or are targeted
• You're warping
• You're decloaking or under gate cloak

Bumping.
It's not an exploit, whether is be with a Mach, or a noobship. It's been discussed, it's been ruled on. It wasn't ruled solely on mining ships either, which is another line many like to trot out. It's a ruling on bumping ships.

Now I'm sure you'll be wanting to now point out, you merely meant exploiting in the term the dictionary states. But whilst we are discussing game mechanics, the term exploit has certain connotations. You know this, we all know this. It's their game, therefore their use of the term applies to that discussion.


So what do we have here? Well you claiming one thing, then go on the say another.
You also claim: "I've yet to see any pro-ganking thread that offered any type of relevant idea beyond the freighter pilots just need to be smarter." (as if that's a bad thing, but I digress.)

That's not been my observation. Take this thread for example.
Or this one.
Both have people offering advice on how to freighter safely. You even talk of some of them yourself.
But it seems to be falling on deaf ears, even with you.

The conclusion to all this is that group play in an MMO, is OP compared to solo play. I hardly call this a revelation, but it seems to be overlooked by many most of the time. But why understand the game, when we can simply run to the forum and ask for a nerf?

Have a great day.

You must be a ballerina.

You quoted the wrong post there. Pretty sure that should be a reply to Lucas.

I just had a look at the usual 3 systems to see just how dangerous highsec has been in the past 24 hours. It's pretty disgusting, in a not enough ships blowing up kind of way:

Jumps Kills %
Niarja 32,779 109 0.33
Uedama 32,429 101 0.31
Jita 52,974 333 0.63
Totals 118,182 543 0.46

My usual disclaimer: this includes all ship kills, not just ganks. In a shocking development, Marmite have been spotted in Uedama of late, far from the safety of the 4/4 docking ring, so there may be more war target kills in that system as a result.

Wow. The ballerina comment was definitely aimed at you. I know this will come as a shock to you, LucasVeers, but there are other people posting in this thread. If you took the time to read what others have posted (oh, the humanity!) you'll see there's been discussion of safety in highsec. I have a habit of posting kill stats for the same three systems (for consistancy, and because they're high traffic, high kill systems) when people bring up the subject. The numbers, which are always taken from dotlan, invariably show that highsec is stupidly safe.