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Crime & Punishment

 
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War on Gankers

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#201 - 2015-01-04 01:29:21 UTC
Yeah, that's the one

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#202 - 2015-01-04 01:29:35 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Completely false. How much conflict do highsec miners face? Eve is intended to be played in any way you wish. Some seek conflict, others seek peaceful endeavors.

Highsec miners face conflict in many ways, here's a non exhaustive list for your viewing pleasure.

  • Gankers kill them
  • Market competition
  • Locust fleets nomming their way through Ice Anoms, depriving other players of said ice
  • Locust fleets nomming their way through asteroid belts, leaving little if anything for anybody else
  • Other miners nomming on the same rocks as them and wasting their cycles (I especially like doing this in my Procurer, I can out mine the average Retriever pilot even taking into account the downtime spent warping backwards and forwards to station)
  • People like me providing warpins for gankers, all the while nomming on rocks or ice.


This is still a minimal level of conflict. The chances of a highsec miner being prevented from mining on any given day are a fraction of a percent. I call tell you that in months of mission running completing hundreds, perhaps thousands, of missions, I faced a grand total of 2 PvP interactions from mission griefers, both of whom waited for me to shoot at them, got bored, and left.

Does that seem like much conflict to you?


Question, do you salvage/loot those missions? do you use the LP from them? does this stuff make it to the player induced and mostly runned Markets?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#203 - 2015-01-04 01:32:02 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Completely false. How much conflict do highsec miners face? Eve is intended to be played in any way you wish. Some seek conflict, others seek peaceful endeavors.

Highsec miners face conflict in many ways, here's a non exhaustive list for your viewing pleasure.

  • Gankers kill them
  • Market competition
  • Locust fleets nomming their way through Ice Anoms, depriving other players of said ice
  • Locust fleets nomming their way through asteroid belts, leaving little if anything for anybody else
  • Other miners nomming on the same rocks as them and wasting their cycles (I especially like doing this in my Procurer, I can out mine the average Retriever pilot even taking into account the downtime spent warping backwards and forwards to station)
  • People like me providing warpins for gankers, all the while nomming on rocks or ice.


This is still a minimal level of conflict. The chances of a highsec miner being prevented from mining on any given day are a fraction of a percent. I call tell you that in months of mission running completing hundreds, perhaps thousands, of missions, I faced a grand total of 2 PvP interactions from mission griefers, both of whom waited for me to shoot at them, got bored, and left.

Does that seem like much conflict to you?


Question, do you salvage/loot those missions? do you use the LP from them? does this stuff make it to the player induced and mostly runned Markets?


I outsource salvage/looting...no one is claiming that PvE doesn't have an impact on the market (though it would be possible to do everything solo, a manufactuer/miner/mission runner with no impact on the market....Wickard v. Filburn notwithstanding). All I am saying is that many players are not looking for ship to ship conflict. Their game consists of highsec pve against npc, and then interacting with other players through the market, not through combat.
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#204 - 2015-01-04 01:34:10 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
This is still a minimal level of conflict.
Regardless of how minimal you think it is, it is still conflict

Quote:
The chances of a highsec miner being prevented from mining on any given day are a fraction of a percent.
Tell that to the hordes of tear filled miners who've been prevented from mining by the destruction of their ships at the hands of gankers, tell it to those miners who arrive at an ice anom or belt to find out that the locust fleets have beaten them to it and left diddly squat for them.

Quote:
I call tell you that in months of mission running completing hundreds, perhaps thousands, of missions, I faced a grand total of 2 PvP interactions from mission griefers, both of whom waited for me to shoot at them, got bored, and left.
And then went and found someone dumb enough to shoot at them, by not shooting at them you played smart, congratulations on not being a total fool.

Quote:
Does that seem like much conflict to you?
Conflict is conflict, it is the engine that powers Eve.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#205 - 2015-01-04 01:40:45 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


I outsource salvage/looting...no one is claiming that PvE doesn't have an impact on the market (though it would be possible to do everything solo, a manufactuer/miner/mission runner with no impact on the market....Wickard v. Filburn notwithstanding). All I am saying is that many players are not looking for ship to ship conflict. Their game consists of highsec pve against npc, and then interacting with other players through the market, not through combat.


Ah, ok that makes sense to outsource it....gives you some indirect protection.
But it still creates conflict.

Now whether a dedicated combat/ganker group, or explorer, or those like me Indy....if that conflict is percieved to be a threat....then its Ok...in fact it is natural as in RL to stop that conflict by any means necessary....and that inevitably will lead to armed conflict. (content created)

Of course the reverse also is true......
Armed conflict to create a market for surplus goods where none of a certain is currently being sold. Sales Booms happen in small locales all the time this way. (content created)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#206 - 2015-01-04 02:16:29 UTC
Ahh the best one yet. Argues that Eve isn't a conflict filled game, by suggesting it has conflict. ShockedStraightLol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#207 - 2015-01-04 02:27:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Mag's wrote:
Ahh the best one yet. Argues that Eve isn't a conflict filled game, by suggesting it has conflict. ShockedStraightLol

Veers logic is an oxymoron, he's about as in touch with Eve reality as most politicians are with actual reality.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#208 - 2015-01-04 02:34:08 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Ahh the best one yet. Argues that Eve isn't a conflict filled game, by suggesting it has conflict. ShockedStraightLol


Missing the point. Conflict is minimal for the thousands who chose a highsec PvE lifestyle.... Eve is only a conflict filled game for those who seek out such conflict.
412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#209 - 2015-01-04 03:09:16 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Missing the point. Conflict is minimal for the thousands who chose a highsec PvE lifestyle.... Eve is only a conflict filled game for those who seek out such conflict.


Lol no its not veers, though nice bait comment

also

CCP Falcon wrote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.



I believe that the message here is you should cry harder pls

A True Champion of High Security Space
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#210 - 2015-01-04 03:11:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Concord Guy's Cousin
Veers Belvar wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Ahh the best one yet. Argues that Eve isn't a conflict filled game, by suggesting it has conflict. ShockedStraightLol


Missing the point. Conflict is minimal for the thousands who chose a highsec PvE lifestyle.... Eve is only a conflict filled game for those who seek out such conflict.
On the contrary it is you who have missed the point.

Direct conflict may be minimal for the thousands who chose a highsec PvE lifestyle.

However, Eve is a conflict filled game by design, it is inherent in every Eve activity regardless of whether or not you seek out such conflict.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#211 - 2015-01-04 03:14:13 UTC
412nv Yaken wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:

Missing the point. Conflict is minimal for the thousands who chose a highsec PvE lifestyle.... Eve is only a conflict filled game for those who seek out such conflict.


Lol no its not veers, though nice bait comment

also

CCP Falcon wrote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.



I believe that the message here is you should cry harder pls


Why should I cry? The gankers have 0 impact on my gameplay. I don't haul or mine, and I fly battleships with a lot of tank and the invincible space police to protect me. From my vantage point 90% of the crying is by gankers over a) the ease of winning wars through rolling corp and b) nerfs to ganking, crackdowns on bonus rooms, etc.... Are you a force to be reckoned with when blowing up new players, afk miners, and haulers who can't shoot back? Sure. Do you pose any threat at all to mission and incursion runners? Nope.
412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#212 - 2015-01-04 03:25:35 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


Why should I cry? The gankers have 0 impact on my gameplay. I don't haul or mine, and I fly battleships with a lot of tank and the invincible space police to protect me. From my vantage point 90% of the crying is by gankers over a) the ease of winning wars through rolling corp and b) nerfs to ganking, crackdowns on bonus rooms, etc.... Are you a force to be reckoned with when blowing up new players, afk miners, and haulers who can't shoot back? Sure. Do you pose any threat at all to mission and incursion runners? Nope.


You are seriously deluded my friend.

You have countless posts about how we affect peoples gameplay, how its unfair screaming for nerfs, changes to mechanics the list goes on and on and on

However when you are told to cry harder, you then turn it around say it doesn't affect you.... Possibly not, with the amount of posts i would argue it does. Though more importantly you cant simply choose which angle you are arguing from to benefit yourself, unless of course you have a personality disorder, which with every post looks more and more possible.

Please stick to one line of argument please and stop changing back an fourth.

Thanks

A True Champion of High Security Space
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#213 - 2015-01-04 03:29:22 UTC
412nv Yaken wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


Why should I cry? The gankers have 0 impact on my gameplay. I don't haul or mine, and I fly battleships with a lot of tank and the invincible space police to protect me. From my vantage point 90% of the crying is by gankers over a) the ease of winning wars through rolling corp and b) nerfs to ganking, crackdowns on bonus rooms, etc.... Are you a force to be reckoned with when blowing up new players, afk miners, and haulers who can't shoot back? Sure. Do you pose any threat at all to mission and incursion runners? Nope.


You are seriously deluded my friend.

You have countless posts about how we affect peoples gameplay, how its unfair screaming for nerfs, changes to mechanics the list goes on and on and on

However when you are told to cry harder, you then turn it around say it doesn't affect you.... Possibly not, with the amount of posts i would argue it does. Though more importantly you cant simply choose which angle you are arguing from to benefit yourself, unless of course you have a personality disorder, which with every post looks more and more possible.

Please stick to one line of argument please and stop changing back an fourth.

Thanks


You hurt new/casual players...you certainly don't hurt me. You have 0 impact on my gameplay other than as a source of amusement. Do I object to bonus room stuff and other real life harassment? Sure. That stuff has no place in the game. Do I oppose the broken bumping mechanics you use to pin freighters down? Yep. But don't for a minute think that this is because these things affect me. They don't. Mission runners and incursion runners suffer no real impact from CODE. You stick to the newbros and avoid the better PvE players.
412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#214 - 2015-01-04 03:43:40 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:


You hurt new/casual players...you certainly don't hurt me. You have 0 impact on my gameplay other than as a source of amusement. Do I object to bonus room stuff and other real life harassment? Sure. That stuff has no place in the game. Do I oppose the broken bumping mechanics you use to pin freighters down? Yep. But don't for a minute think that this is because these things affect me. They don't. Mission runners and incursion runners suffer no real impact from CODE. You stick to the newbros and avoid the better PvE players.


Any proof that we hurt new players, less that 25% of the total ganks CODE. do are to characters less that 3 months old. Infact if you ask any code. pilot they will go for the oldest player in the ice belt because they may have a larger pod.

The bonus room things, I disagree on. As well as the so called "victim" had publicly stated none should of been banned. Though keep brining it up if you like. If you wish to discuss further, you know our teamspeak.

Also there is a stick post about the bumping, which isn't broken, this has been said by the game developers. So you are wrong there again.

Again most incursion runners need to be at their computer or will be killed by the rats, so very rarley are afk, especially with the changes for multiboxing

Veers Belvar wrote:
the better PvE players.


You aren't in this category friend. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. and if we do want to, we will go after incrusion runners, however as mentioned above, they are following the code by not being afk and excessively mining etc.

A True Champion of High Security Space
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#215 - 2015-01-04 04:23:50 UTC
412nv Yaken wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


You hurt new/casual players...you certainly don't hurt me. You have 0 impact on my gameplay other than as a source of amusement. Do I object to bonus room stuff and other real life harassment? Sure. That stuff has no place in the game. Do I oppose the broken bumping mechanics you use to pin freighters down? Yep. But don't for a minute think that this is because these things affect me. They don't. Mission runners and incursion runners suffer no real impact from CODE. You stick to the newbros and avoid the better PvE players.


Any proof that we hurt new players, less that 25% of the total ganks CODE. do are to characters less that 3 months old. Infact if you ask any code. pilot they will go for the oldest player in the ice belt because they may have a larger pod.

The bonus room things, I disagree on. As well as the so called "victim" had publicly stated none should of been banned. Though keep brining it up if you like. If you wish to discuss further, you know our teamspeak.

Also there is a stick post about the bumping, which isn't broken, this has been said by the game developers. So you are wrong there again.

Again most incursion runners need to be at their computer or will be killed by the rats, so very rarley are afk, especially with the changes for multiboxing

Veers Belvar wrote:
the better PvE players.


You aren't in this category friend. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. and if we do want to, we will go after incrusion runners, however as mentioned above, they are following the code by not being afk and excessively mining etc.


25% is a pretty staggering number....that's quite a welcome to Eve. From what I can tell Code just ganks whoever is convenient....note the terror in engaging mission and incursion runners.

And as for incursion runners being code compliant...hahhaha. According to you folks anyone without a permit is not code compliant.....not to mention what james315 himself claimed about incursion runners on minerbumping.com

"There is a plague infecting highsec. A disease which threatens to ruin us all. They're called incursion runners. These bot-aspirants equip themselves with decadent finery and go AFK in "safe spots" between isk-grinding sessions. Everyone knows that I have long opposed highsec incursion running. It's a grotesque risk/reward imbalance. If I were in charge of CCP, I would remove all incursions from highsec and neg-wallet every bot-aspirant who has ever profited from them. However, I do not run CCP. Therefore I only require that incursion runners purchase a mining permit and show total obedience to the Code. Fair enough?"

http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/08/kills-of-week_10.html


That's from your "savior." Empty threats and cluelessness about game mechanics, as per usual. 5 months later and 0 success in your anti-incursion campaign. Time to hang up your boots and call it a career?
412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#216 - 2015-01-04 06:07:06 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
cluelessness about game mechanics,


Pot meet kettle

A True Champion of High Security Space
Gorila Vengaza
Ol-Silly Basterds
#217 - 2015-01-05 11:53:35 UTC
412nv Yaken wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
cluelessness about game mechanics,


Pot meet kettle



As I'm rather new to the EVE forums this is what Ive noticed. Veers argues his points no matter how damn silly they are and hopes to get every thread he posts in locked. It's his only way of being effective in anything having to do with the game itself.

Think Im gonna just block him as Moose's suggested. Veers is a lost cause....
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#218 - 2015-01-05 13:04:53 UTC
Gorila Vengaza wrote:
412nv Yaken wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
cluelessness about game mechanics,


Pot meet kettle



As I'm rather new to the EVE forums this is what Ive noticed. Veers argues his points no matter how damn silly they are and hopes to get every thread he posts in locked. It's his only way of being effective in anything having to do with the game itself.

Think Im gonna just block him as Moose's suggested. Veers is a lost cause....


That you disagree does not make my points silly. Feel free to block, happy to have nothing to do with code griefers
Concord Guy's Cousin
Doomheim
#219 - 2015-01-05 17:25:02 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
That you disagree does not make my points silly. Feel free to block, happy to have nothing to do with code griefers
You're right in that disagreeing with your points doesn't make them silly; what does make them silly is that they rail against the very things that make Eve what it is.

TL;DR your points have little or no relationship to the reality of the game.

ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"

NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Super Perforator
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#220 - 2015-01-05 18:48:32 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:

I get tired of C&P being filled with at least the majority of CODE. stuff. I'd like to see more content creator


Sounds like a challenge for you. Best of luck!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5610165#post5610165

Praise James!