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Quicksand box?

First post
Author
skandra Kishunuba
Have I Got Moos For You
#1 - 2014-12-25 20:46:57 UTC  |  Edited by: skandra Kishunuba
I first started playing Eve due to it being recommended to me by a friend.

One of the big selling points was the sandbox element of the game, being free to do a multitude of different things without being hemmed in too far.

Since I started playing, it seems to me that this sandbox element has been gradually eroded by small steps.

Things like tying in ships to particular, specialist roles, thus forcing pilots to be limited in their choice of ships they can fly effectively for a particular role.

Another example is the recent changes made to the UI, where before the changes it was possible to personalise elements of it to make for a more individual experience. Now we're limited to predefined schemes that can't be personalised and the experience is just more generic.

Is the sandbox slowly turning in to a quicksand box where freedom of choice is being stifled?

Edit to add a question that puts the question more clearly (hopefully) :

Is this constant shifting of the goalposts in an attempt to channel players towards the developers' visions restricting players choices and having a detrimental effect on the sandbox element of the game, which CCP themselves are rightly proud of?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2 - 2014-12-25 20:48:51 UTC
skandra Kishunuba wrote:


Is the sandbox slowly turning in to a quicksand box where freedom of choice is being stifled?


No. Not really.

Mr Epeen Cool
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2014-12-25 20:50:09 UTC
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2014-12-25 20:50:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Yes and yes.

The UI is being handled improperly with an emphasis on Form over Function.

The specialization has always been too harsh regarding prerequisites and barrier to entry.

EVE was a solid idea back in 2001, and what you're seeing is an unwillingness / inability to explore away from that.

damn fanboys. if you can't see ways EVE can improve, you shouldn't be talking in threads like this.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-12-25 20:52:15 UTC
It's an hourglass, the sand that falls out of your box falls right into my box.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#6 - 2014-12-25 21:11:40 UTC
It's not "element of a sandbox". This isn't ArcheAge.


EVE ONLINE symbolises the very definitions of MMO and sandbox.

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!

Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#7 - 2014-12-25 21:13:21 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Yes and yes.

The UI is being handled improperly with an emphasis on Form over Function.

The specialization has always been too harsh regarding prerequisites and barrier to entry.

EVE was a solid idea back in 2001, and what you're seeing is an unwillingness / inability to explore away from that.

damn fanboys. if you can't see ways EVE can improve, you shouldn't be talking in threads like this.

+1 for this
Arla Sarain
#8 - 2014-12-25 21:22:11 UTC
skandra Kishunuba wrote:
I first started playing Eve due to it being recommended to me by a friend.

One of the big selling points was the sandbox element of the game, being free to do a multitude of different things without being hemmed in too far.

Since I started playing, it seems to me that this sandbox element has been gradually eroded by small steps.

Things like tying in ships to particular, specialist roles, thus forcing pilots to be limited in their choice of ships they can fly effectively for a particular role.

Another example is the recent changes made to the UI, where before the changes it was possible to personalise elements of it to make for a more individual experience. Now we're limited to predefined schemes that can't be personalised and the experience is just more generic.

Is the sandbox slowly turning in to a quicksand box where freedom of choice is being stifled?

I don't think you are wrong.

But I doubt a true, absolute sandbox apart from Garry's Mod exists.

I think the sandbox elements people refer to is the inexplicit roles/professions/things that you can engage in.

If you want to be a pirate or a trader, you don't go to the character creator menu and pick a class. You just log in and do/be those things by applying principles that define those roles. The sandbox is in how we interact with each other. If you want to PvP there is no matchmaking system holding you back as you wait to get a Red or a Blue name so that you can fight another dude with a Blue or a Red name.

Naturally, additional steps are added.

I do agree that the ships are extremely limiting, which makes EVE online require a proactive mindset rather than a reactive, which in turn makes it unappealing to most people. Part of the reason is the mandate to make players work together and complement each other.

Ironic, considering dumb things like drone assist exist and the meta shifting to ships of similar types and hulls for ex. Tengu and Ishtar fleets.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#9 - 2014-12-25 21:51:18 UTC
Stealth "Eve is dying" thread?

Also I prefer to compare EVE to a dirty cat litterbox.
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-12-25 22:23:33 UTC
In what way does being able to change the color scheme of your UI have anything whatsoever to do with the sandbox?!?

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-12-25 22:26:32 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
In what way does being able to change the color scheme of your UI have anything whatsoever to do with the sandbox?!?
Hack enemy pc, change ui to pink, win battle.

L2Meta

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Serene Repose
#12 - 2014-12-25 22:34:19 UTC
Another clever one, I see.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Noriko Mai
#13 - 2014-12-25 22:39:58 UTC
EVE is dieing because there is no dak opaque theme!!!!111"!!!

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#14 - 2014-12-25 23:25:26 UTC
skandra Kishunuba wrote:
Things like tying in ships to particular, specialist roles, thus forcing pilots to be limited in their choice of ships they can fly effectively for a particular role.


Agreed. I posted my annoyance about it a year ago. I think it will get worse.

Other than that, I still think EVE is a sandbox.
Vyl Vit
#15 - 2014-12-26 02:20:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
How has this thread not been locked yet? I shall take this opportunity to say:

Your metaphor sucks, just like quicksand. I guess it was difficult to resist - sandbox ... quick...nevermind. It hurt bad enough the first time. Unless of course you consider that quicksand keeps pulling you back in, and in that regard I don't see how that's so hyper-critical an observation, how ever unintentional.

The deeper point this raises is the psychological question having to do with the need to publicly declare one doesn't like something, as if the one declaring amounts to enough for that declaration to be of note. Unfortunately for us all, none of us measure up to that standard where our opinions have become more than just like a-holes (since everybody has one.)

Even so, thanks for sharing whatever it is you thought you shared, OP. It was real, man.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

skandra Kishunuba
Have I Got Moos For You
#16 - 2014-12-26 02:21:44 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
In what way does being able to change the color scheme of your UI have anything whatsoever to do with the sandbox?!?


I suppose that depends on whether one considers the primary point of input and interaction of players with the game is of importance or not.

The term 'sandbox' refers to freedom of choice. Being able to personalise elements of the game adds to freedom of choice.

Being funnelled into a narrow set of parameters stifles freedom of choice.

In some ways, it could be analogous to governments acting in a 'nanny state' fashion, funnelling people into narrow parameters for some perceived 'greater good'.


skandra Kishunuba
Have I Got Moos For You
#17 - 2014-12-26 02:36:59 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
How has this thread not been locked yet? I shall take this opportunity to say:

Your metaphor sucks, just like quicksand. I guess it was difficult to resist - sandbox ... quick...nevermind. It hurt bad enough the first time. Unless of course you consider that quicksand keeps pulling you back in, and in that regard I don't see how that's so hyper-critical an observation, how ever unintentional.

The deeper point this raises is the psychological question having to do with the need to publicly declare one doesn't like something, as if the one declaring amounts to enough for that declaration to be of note. Unfortunately for us all, none of us measure up to that standard where our opinions have become more than just like a-holes (since everybody has one.)

Even so, thanks for sharing whatever it is you thought you shared, OP. It was real, man.


Public 'declarations' become public debate when other parties interact and provide further input.

I see no issue with public debate. Indeed, public debate can sometimes result in positive outcomes, although this often depends on whether those that do engage choose to merely respond with their own public declarations, choose to employ derision as a tool, or maybe even just sit back, say nothing and hope public declarations fades into public apathy and thus, implied public compliance.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2014-12-26 02:43:21 UTC
you should have stopped at "being funneled into a narrow..."

anyway. The idea of balance being broken is still valid, but for low-level players. Which means the game favors the older players. there's a nuance of skill prerequisites that is lost on most people. By lowering prerequisites, you're removing those artificial blocks that might seem worthwhile just for being there... but they're just artificial blocks.

The proof of this is in the fact that reducing prerequisites doesn't change the performance of the ship at any given skill level.

A multiplayer game is balanced if a reasonably large number of options available to the player are viable--especially, but not limited to, during high-level play by expert players. --Sirlin, December 2001

also see http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win
skandra Kishunuba
Have I Got Moos For You
#19 - 2014-12-26 02:48:34 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
you should have stopped at "being funneled into a narrow..."

anyway. The idea of balance being broken is still valid, but for low-level players. Which means the game favors the older players. there's a nuance of skill prerequisites that is lost on most people. By lowering prerequisites, you're removing those artificial blocks that might seem worthwhile just for being there... but they're just artificial blocks.

The proof of this is in the fact that reducing prerequisites doesn't change the performance of the ship at any given skill level.

A multiplayer game is balanced if a reasonably large number of options available to the player are viable--especially, but not limited to, during high-level play by expert players. --Sirlin, December 2001

also see http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win


Thank you.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2014-12-26 02:52:52 UTC
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