These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Ganked on very first sleeper ratting op, how to avoid it?

First post
Author
Dissy Suffry
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-12-22 09:24:19 UTC
Together with some friends we have set up a large POS in a C4 and then lived there for a while, yesterday we prepared an RR BC fleet to try running our very first sites.
So in we went and started doing the site in our home, I was mashing the dscan just to be sure (and was weirded out by how 0 distance shows up under the -- range) when suddenly somebody yells "GET OUT" on comms, neutral warps on grid, bubble comes up and 20 T3 cruisers warp in and completely obliterate us.

Could this have been avoided at all?
Is planting a scout at every single wormhole in the system the only way?
Freddie Merrcury
Fukushima Daiichi Electric Power Co.
#2 - 2014-12-22 09:45:18 UTC
aggressive scouting and closing extraneous holes is your best solution.

Alternatively, get gud

I been kicked out of better homes than this.

Dissy Suffry
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-12-22 09:47:32 UTC
Freddie Merrcury wrote:
aggressive scouting and closing extraneous holes is your best solution.

Alternatively, get gud


Could you elaborate on the closing the holes part?

Is there a reliable way to do it that doesn't risk trapping people on the wrong side?
Freddie Merrcury
Fukushima Daiichi Electric Power Co.
#4 - 2014-12-22 09:50:17 UTC
http://bit.ly/1t05ZH6

I been kicked out of better homes than this.

Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#5 - 2014-12-22 09:56:28 UTC
The only way to 100% avoid or prevent ganking is staying docked ina station.

Here is an old but still true ruleset for w-space:

http://k162space.com/2010/01/
Dissy Suffry
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-12-22 10:01:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Dissy Suffry
Sequester Risalo wrote:
The only way to 100% avoid or prevent ganking is staying docked ina station.

Here is an old but still true ruleset for w-space:

http://k162space.com/2010/01/


So what you are saying is
"Getting ganked is inevitable, you can just hope you can run as many sites as possible before that happens so you can sustain the losses"

Did I get this right?

I could roll with this.

Freddie Mercury wrote:
http://bit.ly/1t05ZH6

Since you went through all the great pain of typing that search into google and then plugging it into an url shortener you could have just expended the energy to link an article on the subject.

This way you only painted yourself as a jerk to the eyes of everyone and generally wasted everyone's time.

---

Anyway thanks for the advice guys, I'll study the provided material and try to improve!
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
xX SERENITY Xx
#7 - 2014-12-22 10:11:04 UTC
dont forget

1. launch combat probes and keep them in air for new ship signatures
2. dscan as always evry 2 seconds
Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#8 - 2014-12-22 10:36:14 UTC
Getting ganked is indeed inevitable. They will come cloaked and find you. When they are bigger in numbers, they will uncloak and attack you. Some even attack with less or even numbers. Even "getting gud" doesn't help much against a fleet several times your size.

If you are in an anomaly (combat or ore) you are quite easy to find. They can just warp cloaked and look for you. Actually you will have to get lucky and hit dscan the very second they switch from jump cloak to regular cloak and the wh-entrance has to be in reach of your scanners.

If you are in a signature (data, relic, gas), they will need to put out probes to find you. Then you will have a better chance of being warned. However, the experts won't need long to scan you down.

Therefore always have a scanning alt logged at your pos, so you will be able to find a way back in in case you are podded.
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
xX SERENITY Xx
#9 - 2014-12-22 11:12:04 UTC
Sequester Risalo wrote:
Getting ganked is indeed inevitable. They will come cloaked and find you. When they are bigger in numbers, they will uncloak and attack you. Some even attack with less or even numbers. Even "getting gud" doesn't help much against a fleet several times your size.

If you are in an anomaly (combat or ore) you are quite easy to find. They can just warp cloaked and look for you. Actually you will have to get lucky and hit dscan the very second they switch from jump cloak to regular cloak and the wh-entrance has to be in reach of your scanners.

If you are in a signature (data, relic, gas), they will need to put out probes to find you. Then you will have a better chance of being warned. However, the experts won't need long to scan you down.

Therefore always have a scanning alt logged at your pos, so you will be able to find a way back in in case you are podded.


i used 3 chars for pos . if one is rolled out , sometimes second one was rolled out when gankers decided to stay for two days in my hole.

best is to have two - three characters in same wormhole, if possible ceptor with probes so they can easily bypass bubbles.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-12-22 11:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Alright, I've had a few beers, it's nearly christmas, so here's some hard truth for you people posting in this thread:
You don't get ganked because it's inevitable, you get ganked because you are worse at the game than the people ganking you.

It is in now way inevitable to get ganked in wspace and the people who tell you it is are either bad at the game themselves or want you to believe it is 'just part of life' in wspace so that they can continue ganking people like you.

Few notes on the specific situation in OP:
- you said a bubbler warped on grid. this means youre either not paying enough attention to dscan, new sigs, dont have scouts or more than likely all of the above.
- did you have a contingency plan in case this happened? i doubt it. you were in BCs, did you have micro jump drives fit, or a mobile depot deployed to fit them, or stabs, when you had to bail?
- learn how to roll holes. it isnt hard, the mass information is widely available, do the maths.

Realistically, most people have been bad at the game at some point which sometimes leads to them getting ganked. hell, ive sat an afk plex fit tengu on a jita gate for a few hours before, that ended predictably too.
However, it's definitely possible to get better at the game and learn how to avoid ganks.
Think about what you need to do to not get ganked. Take precautions, be aware of your connections and sigs, have a contingency plan.

Ultimately, the best way to learn how to defend yourself from ganks is to learn go to gank other people doing the things you do.
This will teach you what to watch for, what timeframes you have to get out is ect. Most of all, it will get you out actually PVPing which is far better than any sort of PVE you might be into.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-12-22 11:41:16 UTC
Dissy Suffry wrote:

Could this have been avoided at all?
Is planting a scout at every single wormhole in the system the only way?


depends on scenario really, if you are in home and have a sizeable fleet collapse all holes, and don't warp to respawned static sig(s). then you can bear it up until you spot a new sig (this will likely be a k162 wh with someone who just jumped in). make sure you get corpies to take one aspect of the job on (dscan, anoms, wh stalking...) - its not easy doing this solo.

you can also plant scouts / alts on whs, and that works well if you are farming static.

i'd say biggest issue is that you probably didn't scout the chain well enough before starting. At a guess, one of their scouts spotted you preparing and waited for the moment to pounce... when scouting don't just check the static and think its all fine, go through each connection and scout systems in full (find out if there are any active poses, what corp if any, what KB activity, what TZ etc...).

u should also have a backup plan if you get jumped:

- always be aligned if possible
- have mobile depots to refit
- have a spare alt at pos who can reship into something useful (ecm, damps, neuts)

getting ganked is just the way it goes, and sometimes credit is due to the hunter. o7

ps. putting bubbles on holes is not very effective since t3 nullified / ceptors will just yolo through anyway. also makes you look like one of them terribad carrier ratting renters, which is like a "GANK ME" neon sign post that flashes brighter than the star of caroline.
Freddie Merrcury
Fukushima Daiichi Electric Power Co.
#12 - 2014-12-22 12:57:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Freddie Merrcury
Dissy Suffry wrote:

Since you went through all the great pain of typing that search into google and then plugging it into an url shortener you could have just expended the energy to link an article on the subject.

This way you only painted yourself as a jerk to the eyes of everyone and generally wasted everyone's time.

I go where I please and please where I go.

I been kicked out of better homes than this.

Juan Diolosa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-12-22 13:25:07 UTC
Jez Amatin wrote:

if you are in home and have a sizeable fleet collapse all holes

Sizable fleet is not required. Just be aware of active holes, and go kill the residents. Afterwards, intelligently roll the hole as normal.

If you can't kill the people in your connections, don't feed them kills by running sites. Never run home sites with an open connection. Never run home sites with an open connection. Never run home sites with an open connection. Never run home sites with an open connection. Never run home sites with an open connection. Never run home sites with an open connection.

Jez Amatin wrote:

don't warp to respawned static sig(s).

Outdated information. Ignore the above.

Jez Amatin wrote:

make sure you get corpies to take one aspect of the job on (dscan, anoms, wh stalking...) - its not easy doing this solo.

EVERYONE D-Scans.
EVERYONE watches for new sigs.
Place an alt on your UNOPENED static(s). You should have caught the probes anyway, but just in case you were not paying attention. You could have rolled a scout out of his exit.
Dissy Suffry
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-12-22 14:16:44 UTC
Yes, we had some very bad lapses in our attention, for one people kept forgetting to dscan even though I reminded them.
We were running a site in our own home system, a scout could have seen us preparing at the POS for all I know.

We also ran an anomaly even though I assumed we were in a safer signature, I would not run anomalies personally due to that but I didn't know since somebody else did the boomarking.

I did take a refitting depot but all I had in my cargo were only warp core stabilizers, kind of useless in this case but I will carry an mwd and an afterburner next time, thanks for the tip.

Next time I shall be a little more prepared and even though I will probably do many more mystakes I won't certainly repeat the most egregious ones (we actually lost the post a short time later due to a completely unrelated incident involving corp theft, can't be safe even at home).

Thanks everyone so far, I'd love to hear more about the subject by expert players and please tell about your past failures, I think that reading other stories of failure can be a great learning experience
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2014-12-22 14:18:59 UTC
Freddie Merrcury wrote:
get gud


prolly the best advice in this thread

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-12-22 14:24:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jez Amatin
Juan Diolosa wrote:
Jez Amatin wrote:

don't warp to respawned static sig(s).

Outdated information. Ignore the above.


correct me if im wrong, if u warp to a nu sig u trigger spawn timer... hence the don't warp there. i know it doesn't spawn immediately, but it still triggers timer for random spawning after set time (this can be short in lower class wh).

"Although K162 signatures will not appear as soon as a player warps to them (as they do currently), they will have a random chance to appear every several minutes once the wormhole connection has less than 15 hours of natural lifetime remaining."

source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/?_ga=1.92057306.1108661856.1389644451

i'd say ignore this at your own peril but vov
Richouse Gallentry
Blue-Fire
#17 - 2014-12-22 14:52:21 UTC
Jez Amatin wrote:


correct me if im wrong, if u warp to a nu sig u trigger spawn timer... hence the don't warp there. i know it doesn't spawn immediately, but it still triggers timer for random spawning after set time (this can be short in lower class wh).

"Although K162 signatures will not appear as soon as a player warps to them (as they do currently), they will have a random chance to appear every several minutes once the wormhole connection has less than 15 hours of natural lifetime remaining."

source: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/?_ga=1.92057306.1108661856.1389644451

i'd say ignore this at your own peril but vov


1) When wormhole is initially warped to, the timer starts... most WH have a lifetime of 24hrs
2) For the next 9 hours the ticking continues before there is a chance of it appearing on the other side.
3) So... for WH types that have an initial 18 hour timer, you have 3 hours of ticking before there is anything to worry about.
Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-12-22 15:23:43 UTC
1) C4 have a fairly balanced mixture of 16 / 24hr holes (not most)
2) true if you have a C5 / C6 static, all the others are 16hrs
3) ahem, i think u mean 16hrs. so if u warp there u have one hr

damn u for making me check, but merry xmas anyway <3
Bleedingthrough
#19 - 2014-12-22 15:56:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Bleedingthrough
Jack Miton wrote:
Alright, I've had a few beers, it's nearly christmas, so here's some hard truth for you people posting in this thread:
You don't get ganked because it's inevitable, you get ganked because you are worse at the game than the people ganking you.

...

Ultimately, the best way to learn how to defend yourself from ganks is to learn go to gank other people doing the things you do.
This will teach you what to watch for, what timeframes you have to get out is ect. Most of all, it will get you out actually PVPing which is far better than any sort of PVE you might be into.


100% this. (Edit: also the drinking part. lol)
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2014-12-22 16:23:45 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Alright, I've had a few beers, it's nearly christmas, so here's some hard truth for you people posting in this thread:
You don't get ganked because it's inevitable, you get ganked because you are worse at the game than the people ganking you.


I like it when you're loose Oops

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

12Next page