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Caldari ship model I created.

First post
Author
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#21 - 2014-12-21 13:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
I might remodel this ship.
It'll save me having to learn texturing for the meantime.

Before I go too far into the new concept, I have to ask anyone still browsing this thread:
Did the 'Cockpit-style' Command Bridge make the ship seem small? Or too civilian?
What were your thoughts on it?


Command bridge is ok, I would give it more complex look, same as those wings and engines on the sides, thyey are too small for the rest of the ship, averall you have to get rid of the spaceshuttle shape, with its symmetry and proportions. Engines in the main hull at the back are not compulsory compacted, can stick out with their awn bulky bits. Wings could be turret, misiles or antennae holders, think aboout drone bay or main entry to the ship. small docking bay, cargohold, ship cantine, main capacitor battery or such, give it more blocky look, Caldari build ships around their systems and use straight lines sometimes with bold angles. They can be front heavy or back heavy, or like a drake, broken at the sides.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-12-21 13:57:26 UTC
Looks like a mix of a Prophecy and a Moa
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2014-12-21 14:02:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
RE: the model... the presentation would look better if you start beveling edges.

using Edge mode, select edges and then go to Edit Mesh -> Bevel □ and select the square to bring up Bevel Options

in Bevel Options, adjust the Width until you get a nice face along sharp edges. It makes the render look better, by giving the edges a glimmer, and more character.

Random Blocky object before bevels

with bevel treatment

Don't bevel smooth edges, though. Bevel will make smooth edges pronounced in the render. (the edge of the cylinder has a small bevel, but I also applied bevel to three of the edges running along the height of the cylinder)

I also recommend prototyping by hand with either pencil / paper or a digital painting program (no matter how crappy it might be). Maya is inherently a very blocky type of program. The benefit of hand-drawn things is the strokes will have the characteristics of motion and speed. You need this type of thing to guide something made in 3D to avoid the blocky feel. Ships that suffer from no-prototyping (imo) are the previous blackbird, the old rattlesnake...

A very strong trend in the new ship models we're seeing in EVE are flow and a sense of motion.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-12-21 14:44:48 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Is there a reason you haven't taken advantage of Mental Ray in Maya? Why use keyshot instead?

Much easier and quicker for me to set up.
KeyShot does a lot of things for you, which is great when you just want simple renders and don't want to have to go through every little detail.
I haven't really looked at mental ray much, mostly I get all that I need and more from KeyShot.
I'll show you!
Now it's your turn. Tell me how to blah.

Favours, are we?

...

1: Ok, first download a program called TriExporter.

2: Unpack the RAR and open the granny2 plug-in with TriExporter

3: Click File > Set folder and select your EVE directory.

4: Browse the Resource folder to dx9 > model > ship then select your faction and choose the appropriate folder for your hull (they're not named, you'll have to figure it out with the next part)

5: Then double-click the [folder name]_[tech model variant].gr2 file. It should show up with the model doing a turntable. In this case, cb1 (Caldari Battleship 1, Raven) t1 (standard model) .gr2

6: Next, select the appropriate .gr2 file, and go File > Export model
The rest is self-explanatory. You can export textures, etc. Read threads for TriExporter if necessary.

As for the apparent 'missing out' that I'm doing, here's my process:

Step 1: Import Maya scene, like so.

Step 2: Drag and drop materials and colours

Step 3: Render out at 4K

#Done.

I don't really have a comment for this. Though, I still must thank you for showing me how to access mental ray.

As for latter comments, I do know how to model the physical shape. Beveling edges wouldn't be useful here. Caldari ships have sharp edges (see Moa).
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2014-12-21 14:56:39 UTC
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-12-21 15:00:03 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote:
I might remodel this ship.
It'll save me having to learn texturing for the meantime.

Before I go too far into the new concept, I have to ask anyone still browsing this thread:
Did the 'Cockpit-style' Command Bridge make the ship seem small? Or too civilian?
What were your thoughts on it?


Command bridge is ok, I would give it more complex look, same as those wings and engines on the sides, thyey are too small for the rest of the ship, averall you have to get rid of the spaceshuttle shape, with its symmetry and proportions. Engines in the main hull at the back are not compulsory compacted, can stick out with their awn bulky bits. Wings could be turret, misiles or antennae holders, think aboout drone bay or main entry to the ship. small docking bay, cargohold, ship cantine, main capacitor battery or such, give it more blocky look, Caldari build ships around their systems and use straight lines sometimes with bold angles. They can be front heavy or back heavy, or like a drake, broken at the sides.

I have a fair idea on what I'm going to change. Make it shorter, more aggressive, with less of a stream-lined look, and overall more 'dirtier.'
I never liked the primary thrusters, and was going to change them regardless. The winglets will be changed for the 'more aggressive' stance.
Yes, I am going to add a Drone Bay, on the back probably.
I'm shortening the Warp-Jets a large amount too.

A more 'complex look' for the bridge doesn't really give me that much to work with. It is literally a component from the Scorpion hull, mixed with other various inspirations. It can only get more complex by adding things around bridge (on the Shock Plate) which is what I'm going to do, but I need a second opinion on whether it makes the ship look small. It's meant to be a Cruiser, but many are calling it a Destroyer.

But anyway, I'm heading off the forums to go to sleep now. I've spent so long replying to everyone that I haven't got even started thinking about what the new concept will actually look like, yet.

Thanks for your feedback. It's been invaluable.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2014-12-21 15:12:14 UTC
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-12-21 15:18:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Rain6637 wrote:
You need this type of thing to guide something made in 3D to avoid the blocky feel.

Aha... ha. The thing with the Owl is that, it wasn't blocky enough.
It's rather hard to not make it stream-lined when you're modelling from what is practically a distorted cylinder.

Rain6637 wrote:
I also recommend prototyping by hand with either pencil / paper or a digital painting program[/url] (no matter how crappy it might be). Maya is inherently a very blocky type of program. The benefit of hand-drawn things is the strokes will have the characteristics of motion and speed.

There's a certain freedom I find in drawing with Maya. I can't say what it is exactly.

Rain6637 wrote:
A very strong trend in the new ship models we're seeing in EVE are flow and a sense of motion.

Double aha! Have you looked at the new Blackbird model? It's like somebody poured glass fragments into the modeller's eyes. It looks cool with textures, but else that model is psychotic.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2014-12-21 15:29:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
"complications sell" is a saying that describes the sense of "ooh shiny" that comes with things that have a lot of little wingy bits and things. I haven't really tried space ship design, but if I was to attempt it, I'd attack it in two parts. The first would be the base shape, and the second would be adding little "cool bits" here and there.

I'm having a lot of fun studying this Rattlesnake model, thank you again.

The newer ships.. the blackbird model in particular... is the result of a concept art drawing that uses a technique of drawing faces using value (lightness / darkeness). If you try a color study of an object with hard faces, what you'll find is the angle of the face in relation to the light source determines its brightness.

My personal opinion of the Confessor and Blackbird concept art is they're very.. . hmm I don't know how to put it... I hope it ends with them, and not every ship in EVE is based on a sketchy concept drawing. Solid, flowing forms is nice.

I might try some myself, in the future. I'm in several art classes as well as Maya, including Beginning Painting starting in January.

BTW, Mari is a program that allows you to paint the texture on the model directly, rather than trying to handle textures in Photoshop all splayed out and ugly. I plan to avoid doing that whenever possible / screw that. lel.

Texturing in Maya is next semester for me as well. I'll mess with some EVE space ships, I'm sure. Do you mind if I poke you with an EVEmail later on when I've found something interesting? I'm wondering if I've found a 3D modelling friend.



also keep in mind that some details are best handled with the model, and others are handled with the texture. I prefer to handle things with the model, just because i'm neurotic and half korean (we get that way).
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-12-21 16:12:51 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
"complications sell" is a saying that describes the sense of "ooh shiny" that comes with things that have a lot of little wingy bits and things. I haven't really tried space ship design, but if I was to attempt it, I'd attack it in two parts. The first would be the base shape, and the second would be adding little "cool bits" here and there.

I'm having a lot of fun studying this Rattlesnake model, thank you again.

The newer ships.. the blackbird model in particular... is the result of a concept art drawing that uses a technique of drawing faces using value (lightness / darkeness). If you try a color study of an object with hard faces, what you'll find is the angle of the face in relation to the light source determines its brightness.

My personal opinion of the Confessor and Blackbird concept art is they're very.. . hmm I don't know how to put it... I hope it ends with them, and not every ship in EVE is based on a sketchy concept drawing. Solid, flowing forms is nice.

I might try some myself, in the future. I'm in several art classes as well as Maya, including Beginning Painting starting in January.

BTW, Mari is a program that allows you to paint the texture on the model directly, rather than trying to handle textures in Photoshop all splayed out and ugly. I plan to avoid doing that whenever possible / screw that. lel.

Texturing in Maya is next semester for me as well. I'll mess with some EVE space ships, I'm sure. Do you mind if I poke you with an EVEmail later on when I've found something interesting? I'm wondering if I've found a 3D modelling friend.



also keep in mind that some details are best handled with the model, and others are handled with the texture. I prefer to handle things with the model, just because i'm neurotic and half korean (we get that way).


Um, sure. I'm not really actively playing EVE at the moment, but I'd be more than happy to hear of your developments.

It depends with the 'cool bits'. Sometimes they can be added as an afterthought, other times (like demonstrated with the Owl warp jets, here) they are actually the core shape. It is a major part of the modelling process usually.
I can post the evolution of the model tomorrow, to demonstrate this, if you wish.

The Confessor has too many modular armor pieces, and too many weird... Pieces, for an Amarrian vessel.
The Blackbird has too many 'squarified' antennae, and the tall sensor and command towers which ruin the flow of the ship.

I wouldn't rely on the 'complications sell' thing too much. I'm certainly not relying on it, come tomorrow.

With textures, I would create and unwrap my UVs regardless of whether I'm going to paint direct on the model or not. It may be more lengthy, but it's not terribly complicated, and I consider the process more worth it, because you have more control at the end of the day.
It's like the KeyShot vs mental ray thing that you're trying to convince me about.

With organic models, they say bump maps can save alot of polygons for the finer definition. I disagree.
Though that's probably low for some models, it's not my last subdivision.

And yeah, I'll be friends with really anyone who calls me 'friend', so of course. If that is what you mean. If not, damn AS.

5.15am? S**t.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#31 - 2014-12-21 17:16:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
We indeed see more flowing shapes, in Caldari case, they are "low polygon" flowing. More importantly, the ships have one shape bigger proportionally, where you locate more of the ship spaces inside, mainly hangars, crew compartments, main warp systems, are complimented by medium sized shapes in different locations, these are medium sized systems holders, like platforms for weapons or communication/command bridges, engines. Small dits of equipment are very often doubled, in case of damage they could take, they stick out from main hull rather often, because of their function like antennae. Many smaller sized systems complimentary to the main systems can be partly visible in form of bulging out spaces, textured they would take more complicated look.
Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
#32 - 2014-12-21 18:38:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Baljos Arnjak
Looks pretty good to me.

A couple of nitpicks though:

First is the antennas on the front. They look weird pointing down at an angle like they are because they don't flow with the primary axis of the model. I'd either find a way to mount them so that they point straight forward, find a different spot, or remove them entirely.

Second, I think you can just remove the command bridge. Being based around capsuleer tech, EvE ships don't really need them. Something else to keep in mind is that most naval ship designs are based around having horizontal decks, and decks don't usually sit at an angle. So, what you could do is build your command deck into the downward bend so that it sits horizontal but up and back a bit. Also, remember that cruisers in EvE are something like 3-400m long, and a command deck might be something like 10-20m in dimension.

Third thing is the "Particle Warp Jets". I think you should redo those but don't start with a cylinder. When I'm modeling something like that, I'll generally start with a plane or a cube and loop cut and/or scale my way to the shape I want, then extrude back to get the volume of the object. That way you don't end up with funky edge loops like you get from fighting with cylinders. It really depends on what look you are actually going for though.

But yeah, I'd say this is VERY good if using Blender and designing ships is new to you Big smile I'd say the ship's angles are about right. It does look a little Prophecy'ish from the front but with textures it won't be as noticable, especially if you break up the "shock layer" into smaller armor pieces. Engine nozzle placement looks really cool, sort of like some of the Tengu builds.

Anyway, generally, I like it a lot =)
VaIefar Drekavac
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2014-12-21 19:12:05 UTC
Nifty looking thing - though, personally, I don't see it being a cruiser. Would be nice for being a frigate / schuttle or hence, a fighter - though.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2014-12-21 21:34:15 UTC
Looks like stretched out boxy Prophecy with antennas. Probably...
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-12-21 23:16:50 UTC
VaIefar Drekavac wrote:
Nifty looking thing - though, personally, I don't see it being a cruiser. Would be nice for being a frigate / schuttle or hence, a fighter - though.

I've realised what makes it look un-Cruiser-like.
There are certain features that make it look smaller than intended.
It actually took some inspiration from fighter-spacecraft, so attributes carried over.

The Moa/Prophecy trend makes it less like its own ship, and more a combination of other ones.
I'm keeping the same core shape, but I'm redesigning it.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2014-12-22 04:13:29 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#37 - 2014-12-22 04:30:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Rain6637 wrote:
tell me how to extract the ship models from the game files.

Would also very much like to know how this is done.
Bonus points for texture/maps and weapon models.

Edit: derp , I see it there.

I'll contact you something in game tomorrow by way of thanks
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#38 - 2014-12-22 05:09:22 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
tell me how to extract the ship models from the game files.

Would also very much like to know how this is done.
Bonus points for texture/maps and weapon models.

Edit: derp, I see it there.

I'll contact you something in game tomorrow by way of thanks

All the models in within the game files are listed in the 'model' folder.

As for textures, you can double-click them to load onto the model you are previewing. This way, the model is exported with the texture map files you have loaded. You still will have to apply the textures to the model as far as I'm aware.

Generally, I export the models with TriExporter, and use DragonUnpacker to open the .stuff files and directly export the texture maps. But using TriExporter is probably more convenient for most.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#39 - 2014-12-22 10:15:47 UTC
http://imgur.com/zw18Sm9

I made some fast prototyping, in paint. As you can see, it would not be easy to model. lots of small and medium sized details.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-12-22 10:35:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Ok everyone, an update.

I've sat down with a piece of paper an tried to create a more unique, less streamlined, more blocky and 'dirty' model. I've re-imagined the bridge to make the ship seem more like a cruiser-sized vessel rather than a shuttle.

So here is a side-view of the new concept.

Some pieces will be removed, added, or modified when I model it. The size here is relatively in proportion with what I want. It looks quite distorted on camera, so keep that in mind.

It took so long to create this single view, that I must apologise, I'm not uploading any other camera angles for the moment.

That said, I still want your feedback if you're interested. The model will of course be more defined than this drawing, but there are a few key things I want a second opinion on:

Do the armor overlaps (Shock Plate and Thruster) make the model too extreme for what Caldari engineers would likely build?
What is your opinion on how it makes the ship look?

Does the ship remind you of any EVE ship? Or not? (that would be good)
Can you draw major similarities to other ships like the original did with the Moa and Prophecy?

Does it look combat-ready?
>> Is it 'more aggressive' and 'dirty' like I aimed for?
Does it look more like something that's going to destroy stuff rather than transport it?

Am I missing something?
Though I have the major components of a ship here, is there something you think should be added to this concept?

Anything else?
Do remember that a lot of the 'non-streamlined' look will come from the 'stealthy' structure bends. The way that I intend to mold the structure is heavily influenced by the Moa.

This will probably take about 15 hours to model after I append finer details, that is, unless this concept is too over-the-top.
(complexity is not my concern, Bagrat)

Thanks in advance. Though this is only the first ship I've modeled, all of you are helping it become great.
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