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Combat Recons undetectable by d-scan in Proteus
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Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#41 - 2014-12-19 14:37:51 UTC
Jezza McWaffle wrote:
They dont have a higher strength, can just go one step smaller (which you should never need for sigs)

How did I not know of this before!? I was certain you are pulling my leg here, but my fitting tools agree with your statement. Got to put some effort into checking how far my probe alt can go without needing the smallest step with probes, which is probably pretty damn far.
Agatir Solenth
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-12-20 14:20:38 UTC
Pilgrim finally gets a range bonus, Curse gets a better tank...

And people who know how to properly scout with combat probes increase in value.

Recons are back!
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#43 - 2014-12-20 15:03:51 UTC
Can't rock the boat can we fellahs. No sir.

Need more changes not less.

Recons getting dscan immunity might not be the answer but it is an answer
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-12-21 08:41:24 UTC  |  Edited by: unimatrix0030
The d-scan changes are understandable, ypu need to have a difference between the combat recon and the force recon.
With out it why choose for a combat recon when the ehp/dps/utility is hardly different?
I am more worried about the extra resists though.
If the difference between t3 and recon becomes to small no one will buy loki's for webbing or ecmgu's.
I mean what are loki's used for except for webbing?
We can't survive on the sales of confessors.... .

I like this idea though:
Kynric wrote:

I would be much more happier with the dscan game if instead of it being 100% chance out to a 14 and some change and then 0% chance it were to become a chance to are all ships with the chance greater for closer/large ships and smaller for small/far ships with perhaps modifiers for terrain or perhaps electronically sophisticated ships like recons. That would make the cat and mouse a lot more interesting to me. This would make the scout game play a lot mote interesting and separate the great scouts from the pack which is imo a good thing.

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#45 - 2014-12-21 13:41:02 UTC
How will the changes make a difference between force- and combatrecons? Instead of making real combatrecons they are being made even more alike. One will be better with nonperfect eyes on you the other if there are accelerationgate involved or you will land inside of combatrange of the hostiles. The rest is determined by the fitting.
New combatrecons will be plain out better in almost every situation than forcerecons, so there will be a shift.
But a t3 will still have at least double the ehp and the dscaninvis doesn´t really matter in any fleetfights. And how often do you need longwebs for hunting since 100mn tengu went out of style. The proteus will still be used because of stupid-ehp.

But lets be honest there is barely any reason to fly any minmatarship that uses ACs for anything else but its utility.
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#46 - 2014-12-21 15:12:37 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:
The d-scan changes are understandable, ypu need to have a difference between the combat recon and the force recon.
With out it why choose for a combat recon when the ehp/dps/utility is hardly different?
I am more worried about the extra resists though.
If the difference between t3 and recon becomes to small no one will buy loki's for webbing or ecmgu's.
I mean what are loki's used for except for webbing?
We can't survive on the sales of confessors.... .


They said they wanted recons and T3s to be more similar... No reason to gimp another ship to keep T3s selling, please think more about the game as a whole and less about your wallet when it comes to balancing)) tia

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Eliram Kahoudi
Big Fluffy Bunnies
#47 - 2014-12-21 21:52:06 UTC
I do love the offensive opportunities from this. Being able to fly around in a WH that isnt gimped in cloaky form is kinda nice. But on the flip side of that we are a small corp and most of the time dont have enough accounts to have 1 guy sitting there spamming combat scanners.

I feel like there should be something that would allow you to still be able to be safe ish while doing pve and still just as fun as the pvp possibilities this presents.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-12-21 22:00:13 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:

They said they wanted recons and T3s to be more similar... No reason to gimp another ship to keep T3s selling, please think more about the game as a whole and less about your wallet when it comes to balancing)) tia

So you don't mind a nerf to null sec income then to balance that out?

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#49 - 2014-12-21 23:30:48 UTC
Doesn't this kind of bring us back to before the discovery scanner? Instead of people running spamming d-scan, if you're running a static, you'll have combat probes out and you'll be looking for ships.

It's kind of gimmicky, and I'm not a huge fan. But - I do think it's an interesting idea. It'll certainly give them a niche. But after the SOE frig/cruiser, do we really need another WH gank ship?
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#50 - 2014-12-21 23:58:19 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:

They said they wanted recons and T3s to be more similar... No reason to gimp another ship to keep T3s selling, please think more about the game as a whole and less about your wallet when it comes to balancing)) tia

So you don't mind a nerf to null sec income then to balance that out?


Please explain why income should have any effect on balance

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-12-22 07:48:36 UTC
Agatir Solenth wrote:
Pilgrim finally gets a range bonus...

While losing amount bonus. I doubt that list of things it can engage is going to get bigger.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-12-24 07:31:14 UTC
Shilalasar wrote:
Jezza McWaffle wrote:
I told you Core prober fools that Combats were the only way to go! P


Took me years to find out that cores have a higher basestrength because I only used combats or DSPs anyways.

But d-scaninvis is a ****** design.


**** design, perhaps...

But Combat Recons suffer from an existential crisis as they don't really fit any niches that the covert versions don't already do better, and they don't have the tank to justify the "combat" part of the title. The ceaseless bitching on the forums about the proposed changes and then the rollback on the planned resist profile by CCP just proves to me that they're making changes simply for the sake of making changes and inciting panic among the anxiety ridden PvE population. D-scan immunity changes little for W-space fleet meta, d-scan immune Combat Recons aren't going to break T3 AHAC blobs.

The only people scared shitless of D-scan immune Recons are the PvE obsessed pudknockers who haven't figured out how to fit an expanded probe launcher to their overly blingy hull, and/or how combat probes work.


Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#53 - 2014-12-24 10:10:24 UTC
Incindir Mauser wrote:

The ceaseless bitching on the forums about the proposed changes and then the rollback on the planned resist profile by CCP just proves to me that they're making changes simply for the sake of making changes and inciting panic among the anxiety ridden PvE population. D-scan immunity changes little for W-space fleet meta, d-scan immune Combat Recons aren't going to break T3 AHAC blobs.


God damnit, now recons aren't getting the tank buff? That's the one change that made me the happiest Sad

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-12-24 10:20:23 UTC
Eliram Kahoudi wrote:
I feel like there should be something that would allow you to still be able to be safe ish while doing pve and still just as fun as the pvp possibilities this presents.


Just don't sit close to the warp in and you'll be "safe". Well, at least from recons - a cloaky T3 will still get you.
Generaloberst Kluntz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2014-12-24 11:58:11 UTC
The amount of tears in that thread is funny
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#56 - 2014-12-25 20:06:21 UTC
Wow talk about OP in wormhole space! Let the gank-frenzy begin! Cool
You think that the small corps in the low class wormholes hadn't been screwed enough by CCP? But they just keep on slamming away! Big smile

Everywhere else tho, it's a bit meh.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Sugar Smacks
Khanid Royal Navy
Khanid.
#57 - 2014-12-26 22:06:13 UTC
This only really effects the very beginning of when you enter a wormhole.

Lets face it larger corps will stage people on the hole so they will see this coming and it wont effect them.

In essence this only effects the solo pvpr who needed D-scan to cover that hole, that would have detected a covert ops ship before but wont be able to cover this type of ship.

Truly to be fair it would seem the smartest idea would be to make them appear on D-scan for the first 5 secounds of being revealed after entering a wormhole. However people have this perception it doesnt change anything. Even though it does, and it could be a very negative effect to low population corps in wormholes.

CCP shouldn't try to cater to one crowd while screwing the other, especially when all can be covered.
Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-12-26 23:11:19 UTC
There's a false impression that dscan is completely reliable. Currently, there's a good chance u will not pickup that covops as it cloaks off a WH anyway. I don't see this change having much change on whether ur going to get ganked or not...
Mister Holder
Faceless Men
#59 - 2014-12-26 23:34:37 UTC
Niskin wrote:
Holy sh*t, the Curse is back!



My **** got hard when I saw what they were doing to combat recons. Went from Six to Midnight straight away.

So excited about this change.
Eojek
Starlight Moly
#60 - 2014-12-31 00:32:43 UTC
Seraph Essael wrote:
... You know what the bears are like,...


Ah the words of Musalinii's followers, they crack me up every time. It's like listening to a two year old try to describe a bird.