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The nerf to Drone Hordes

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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#41 - 2011-11-30 20:24:28 UTC
Herrington Vance wrote:
I think it is fairly obvious that, regardless of how much anyone agrees or disagrees with the concept of certain space being of dramatically lower value (or higher opportunity cost), CCP is trying to push drone-residents to get mobile and start hassling other regions for "better," space.

Ultimately, it makes little difference what we think about equitable anom equivalents. CCP has made it's agenda clear ages ago and they clearly think that this is their best bet to get sov. wars going again. Since the NC was evicted, I'll be they even think their plan has been a success thus far.

Personally, I don't think anything short of tech moons will ever be worth structure grinding over, but perhaps i'm under-estimating the boredom super pilots will experience without being able to smack subcaps around.


Sound thinking, but we may never know CCP's motivation for doing something like this.

Like I said, I'm more inclined to believe CCP's aim is more along the lines of fixing an old and pre-existing problem (the sheer amount of materials coming from drone regions, which affects markets AND a whole 'nother profession), just like they did when they nerfed loot drops from missions.


The people who have been spoiled by the old ways are complaining about it rather than trying to find ways to adapt. I don't fell sorry for them, the whole "shoot structure, get aggro, bring in noctis to salvage in complete safety" method was unfair to those of us who were NOT in drone regions. You know, us guys who have to kill the WHOLE sanctum to finish it lol.

Some of my drone region buddies are doing the same complaining, to which I said "can't you just put capital remote reps on your carrier and perma rep your noctis so it can survice the spawns?". They were all like "oh yea" lol.

Sorry drone regions require actual effort now, but thats EVE :) .
Herrington Vance
Doomheim
#42 - 2011-11-30 21:26:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Sound thinking, but we may never know CCP's motivation for doing something like this.


I could be mistaken about this, but I recall them spelling out their motivation plainly the last time they had a devblog on nullsec/anomalies.
Adamska Rin
Intelli-core
#43 - 2011-11-30 21:49:07 UTC
I am definitely looking forward to the way this effects the market as I am primarily a miner. I run 4 accounts to maximize my profit, perhaps if more of you were willing to run more accounts, or maybe find some friends to run these sites with would make it easier and have more fun doing.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#44 - 2011-12-01 01:21:19 UTC
cellah wrote:
we cannot salvage cause its comming in waves wich will kill our noctis fast.


Sounds like you need to change how you salvage is all. I can't salvage sleeper sites during combat, it's never been a hindrance to me.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2011-12-01 03:22:10 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Vipieris wrote:
I love how people who DON'T live in these areas are so quick to argue about something they obviously know nothing about...


I also love the snarky comments they make like, "Well maybe it shouldn't be balanced," and "go find somewhere else to live" when I know without any doubt whatsoever that they'd be screaming bloody murder if THEIR gameplay was affected...


So I'll respond to all of them with this comment:

"I didn't ask you for your opinion, so STFU...."

That work for you? Good.


Personally I thought the Hordes were just fine as they were, and I've only been running them now for about a month, busting my a$$ to get the right skills, the right ship, the right fittings, buying BPO's for the drones/fighters, etc... Now it's becoming pretty obvious that carriers - already being useless for PvP - are useless for PvE as well.

So I challenge CCP to address these concerns, as they've now made the "hardest" drone site one of the least valuable. And for those of you who aren't affected by this issue, I invite you to mind your own damned business.




Vipieris is correct.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#46 - 2011-12-01 03:57:04 UTC
I wanna salvage at the same moment as the other account shoots the NPC's in Missions too............ please
Sub Prime
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2011-12-01 07:38:43 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Herrington Vance wrote:
I think it is fairly obvious that, regardless of how much anyone agrees or disagrees with the concept of certain space being of dramatically lower value (or higher opportunity cost), CCP is trying to push drone-residents to get mobile and start hassling other regions for "better," space.

Ultimately, it makes little difference what we think about equitable anom equivalents. CCP has made it's agenda clear ages ago and they clearly think that this is their best bet to get sov. wars going again. Since the NC was evicted, I'll be they even think their plan has been a success thus far.

Personally, I don't think anything short of tech moons will ever be worth structure grinding over, but perhaps i'm under-estimating the boredom super pilots will experience without being able to smack subcaps around.


Sound thinking, but we may never know CCP's motivation for doing something like this.

Like I said, I'm more inclined to believe CCP's aim is more along the lines of fixing an old and pre-existing problem (the sheer amount of materials coming from drone regions, which affects markets AND a whole 'nother profession), just like they did when they nerfed loot drops from missions.


The people who have been spoiled by the old ways are complaining about it rather than trying to find ways to adapt. I don't fell sorry for them, the whole "shoot structure, get aggro, bring in noctis to salvage in complete safety" method was unfair to those of us who were NOT in drone regions. You know, us guys who have to kill the WHOLE sanctum to finish it lol.

Some of my drone region buddies are doing the same complaining, to which I said "can't you just put capital remote reps on your carrier and perma rep your noctis so it can survice the spawns?". They were all like "oh yea" lol.

Sorry drone regions require actual effort now, but thats EVE :) .


Why are you posting about something you know nothing about?

The hordes ARE completed as they won't respawn if they're not (are you really that stupid?). Also, since when were people in the drone regions spoilt by the old ways considering the following:

Hordes gave less ISK value than Sanctums
Hordes needed to be salvaged to realise the value
The drone alloy had to be transported to a station for refining etc

The drone regions were always WORSE, so what is your point.
thoth rothschild
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2011-12-01 07:57:18 UTC  |  Edited by: thoth rothschild
This nerf was and is a player driven nerf. This nerf was puplished and fortified in may.
It was pushed and requested by players (CSM). It is called the farm and field initiative. The problem was the cheer endless amount of ore flowing out of this region and the removal of the mining profession by it. There was a lot of pre warning time a lot of announcements and the amount off ccp involved in it is minimal.


The drone regeions were a a part in the puzzle to the so called supercarrier dilemma. There is massive cash added to the game but ressources shortned. That will give the game the needed devaluation of cash and a sort of isk sink.
Tetragammatron Alpha
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2011-12-01 08:01:14 UTC
Sub Prime wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Herrington Vance wrote:
I think it is fairly obvious that, regardless of how much anyone agrees or disagrees with the concept of certain space being of dramatically lower value (or higher opportunity cost), CCP is trying to push drone-residents to get mobile and start hassling other regions for "better," space.

Ultimately, it makes little difference what we think about equitable anom equivalents. CCP has made it's agenda clear ages ago and they clearly think that this is their best bet to get sov. wars going again. Since the NC was evicted, I'll be they even think their plan has been a success thus far.

Personally, I don't think anything short of tech moons will ever be worth structure grinding over, but perhaps i'm under-estimating the boredom super pilots will experience without being able to smack subcaps around.


Sound thinking, but we may never know CCP's motivation for doing something like this.

Like I said, I'm more inclined to believe CCP's aim is more along the lines of fixing an old and pre-existing problem (the sheer amount of materials coming from drone regions, which affects markets AND a whole 'nother profession), just like they did when they nerfed loot drops from missions.


The people who have been spoiled by the old ways are complaining about it rather than trying to find ways to adapt. I don't fell sorry for them, the whole "shoot structure, get aggro, bring in noctis to salvage in complete safety" method was unfair to those of us who were NOT in drone regions. You know, us guys who have to kill the WHOLE sanctum to finish it lol.

Some of my drone region buddies are doing the same complaining, to which I said "can't you just put capital remote reps on your carrier and perma rep your noctis so it can survice the spawns?". They were all like "oh yea" lol.

Sorry drone regions require actual effort now, but thats EVE :) .


Why are you posting about something you know nothing about?

The hordes ARE completed as they won't respawn if they're not (are you really that stupid?). Also, since when were people in the drone regions spoilt by the old ways considering the following:

Hordes gave less ISK value than Sanctums
Hordes needed to be salvaged to realise the value
The drone alloy had to be transported to a station for refining etc

The drone regions were always WORSE, so what is your point.


If you weren't terrible you could make ~300mil per hour running drone hordes with smart bombing carriers till they nerfed that.

Drone hordes always completed? No....everyone who lives there with a brain knows to just kill the bs, warp out and go next site. Warp in rorq/noctis a couple mins after to the last site when it has despawned.
Sub Prime
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2011-12-01 08:02:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sub Prime
*knocks his head with a baseball bat*

The complaint is not really about the reduction in alloys, it's that CCP have introduced something without catering for the other side as well. Everyone is aware that CCP wanted to get rid of the alloys and was coming to accept it, what actually happened was CCP reduced the alloys, had the sites harder/more time consuming (they were the hardest sites anyway), added no compensation (eg bounties) for the nerfs and then upped the anomolies in other regions. So basically not only did the worst region for doing anomolies become worse, the other regions became better.

EDIT: CCP Soundwave shows again that he has no clue. I thought that the problems with Incarna and the response afterwards would have shown that before making drastic changes, the userbase should be consulted and the developers should appreciate the ramifications of their actions - PI and the drone regions just show this is NOT the case.
thoth rothschild
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2011-12-01 08:06:26 UTC  |  Edited by: thoth rothschild
*knock* *knock* it was not ccp it were the players who requested that :> Please read the csm notes of the past months especially may summit.
Sub Prime
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2011-12-01 08:11:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sub Prime
CCP Soundwave wrote:
I'm considering putting bounties on them and turning them into normal rats.

I hate gunmining with a passion.


And what I said:

Sub Prime wrote:
...Everyone is aware that CCP wanted to get rid of the alloys...


Now where is your problem?
Dagazbo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2011-12-01 08:21:45 UTC
http://www.eveonline.com/en/crucible/article/3092/pinch-yourself-more-bosses-more-modules-more-loot-less

Quote:
CCP Bettik has been going spreadsheet crazy; reviewing the average payout for anomalies and increasing their values. You will see more NPCs in anomalies and, best of all, more ISK in your wallet! A more detailed blog about the Anomaly rebalancing effort, by CCP Greyscale, will be published next week.


I really don't think CCP meant to nerf them but sadly the have.

@Tetragammatron Alpha, your right you could make a lot of money just by killing and looting BS's i never salvage hordes i just got the plush/glossy and moved on but now we cant even do that.
Sub Prime
Perkone
Caldari State
#54 - 2011-12-01 08:23:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Sub Prime
Tetragammatron Alpha wrote:

If you weren't terrible you could make ~300mil per hour running drone hordes with smart bombing carriers till they nerfed that.

Drone hordes always completed? No....everyone who lives there with a brain knows to just kill the bs, warp out and go next site. Warp in rorq/noctis a couple mins after to the last site when it has despawned.


We're talking about 1 week ago compared to today, not 'pluck a date out of the sky' compared to today.

Regarding the despawning, you're not getitng this gist of the problem, now that the drones can't all be spawned at once, you can't just kill BS and then bugger off. Also, AFAIK the site won't despawn if there are NPC's left in it.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2011-12-01 09:00:05 UTC
I can think of several ways to improve drone space without resorting back to 'Gunmining':

- Building small or large ships requires those ships be moved a long way to a viable market. Small ships are useless to build and sell as they are too difficult to move. If there was a dedicated ship carrying capital, then it would be good.

- Selling anything to high sec requires a long pipe run through low sec, or the use of a jump bridge from a titan. Expensive and risky.

Building and selling capitals of any size requires a lot of investment, a lot of time and good planning. Something no other region has to contend with as they can simply buy what they need.

To sum up: It requires ISK to make ISK. Every other region requires a ship to make isk. It is not easy to make ISk in drone regions.

How can that be fixed?

- By putting bounties on Rogue Drones.
- By making a high sec system very close to nul sec space (ala EC-P)
- More technically, by making rogue drones always target the first ship that aggresses them, despite multiple waves.
- Make the last BS standing the spawn point in the bunker hordes, but make all rogue drones in said horde target ships as any normal spawn would.

i don't think adding in more BS drones will help in this case, as Hordes can still hit very hard, and i don't think swapping the compounds for ISK is the right thing to do either.

In short, please don't make the drone regions crap again.

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St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2011-12-01 09:12:46 UTC
Well, since CCP nerfed Drone Hordes, the Drone Regions have been lacking. I have come to a simple but brilliant solution.

Move all the drone sites from high/low/pirate nullsec to drone nullsec.

All those Rogue Drone Asteroid Infestations, Haunted and Chemical Yards, move them all to drone nullsec. You give the drone regions that much needed ISK buff they deserve, and you nerf safe highsec ISK farming! Big smile
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
#57 - 2011-12-01 10:04:32 UTC
Simply great.

At first CCP renders my account useless introducing new bug and after that they **** up region im in.

Big love

(and i was so looking forward to this new update - stupid me)
orange offspring
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2011-12-01 10:17:09 UTC
A GM told me that the changes to the hordes was because the original triggers was a bug letting players bypass them, I dont agree with the changes as the old way made up for salvaging time etc.

at the end of the day CCP wanted to change the anoms (the isk:EHP ratio) which is awesome but the changes to the horde sites have afffected them alot, i dont think CCP has taken into account that its not just the EHP of the site its the isk:EHP:salvage:haulage/building

if they want to keep the current changes then so be it but they need to seriously buff them to make them worth while, in any other region with rats that have bountys you can do two sites by the time you have done one site and salvaged it in drone space and thats not exactly balanced in my opinion

meh had my moan now trolls please hit me with a big stick Big smile
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#59 - 2011-12-01 12:48:19 UTC
St Mio wrote:
Well, since CCP nerfed Drone Hordes, the Drone Regions have been lacking. I have come to a simple but brilliant solution.

Move all the drone sites from high/low/pirate nullsec to drone nullsec.

All those Rogue Drone Asteroid Infestations, Haunted and Chemical Yards, move them all to drone nullsec. You give the drone regions that much needed ISK buff they deserve, and you nerf safe highsec ISK farming! Big smile


Good god please make this happen.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#60 - 2011-12-01 13:19:28 UTC
orange offspring wrote:
A GM told me that the changes to the hordes was because the original triggers was a bug letting players bypass them,



I can believe that, and all the people who profited from that bug and it's results (results detrimental to the mining profession and the EVE in general) simply need to get over the fact that the days of easy drone NPCing are gone. I wish CCP would go further, if Drone NPCs were made to be similar to other NPCs, the drone regions might be an attractive target. Moar war is better.