These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

How to prevent ganks?

Author
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#21 - 2014-12-15 12:31:25 UTC
Manually fly the ship! Dont sit still in 1 spot if you can avoid it. Makes it harder for people to aproach you cloaked if they risk getting decloaked by wreck or structure Big smile

Fly with a friend or alt account that sits off the wh and listens / watches for wh activations.

Run the data / relic sites since they have to use probes to find you, only chance they find you without probes is if they been inside that wh system before you and scanned and bookmarked those sites themselves.

Carry EC-300's can have a tiny chance of jamming a tackle ship so you can get out. Not everytime but sometimes.

If you want a drake to be more tanky fit t2 shield rigs.
But for faster dps a missile rig can help.

Also sometimes its all gut feeling and luck that decides if you stay alive.
You can try fit afterburner on the drake to give yourself more speed in the site and be able to get into align to warp out faster.

Safest way of c1 running is to pull out the instant you see something fishy on dscan, even its just a magnate P
Greed can kill you Big smile
Liet Ormand
Sons of Bacchus
#22 - 2014-12-15 15:11:14 UTC

I'll echo some of the advice here, but I want to mention a couple of things others have not.

I'm a new player too, been in ships for about two weeks now, and I'm really, really enjoying the intensity of exploration. I originally couldn't afford anything but tech I frigates, and now I stick with them for the reasons below.

1) When you see anyone else in the system, cloak up if you aren't already and stop doing things. If you see multiple ships enter the system, cloak up and scuttle (blow up) your core probes. Even if they can't see you, they can see your probes.

2) ** Important... I can see you want to bring enough firepower to take on the sleepers, which makes sense because those sites are far more common than the anomalies, but your ship has a 295m signature radius. The frigate I usually do wormholes in has a 40m signature radius. It's much harder to find me than it is to find you. Still possible.

No matter how much firepower you bring, the gankers will bring more. The only defense against them is seeing them first and hiding or running. If you're in a big ship like a drake, you're also a much more interesting target for them. A ganker who isn't hunting for money but rather for kicks isn't going to chase down a little imicus, but is going to put a whole lot of effort into killing a drake just because it's more interesting for him.

I have developed habits for hitting d-scan every 10 seconds or so (it's not as difficult as it sounds) unless I'm cloaked, and even then I do if I have probes out. If I see anything on the list, even other core probes, I make sure I'm cloaked and either recall or detonate my own probes. I never sit stationary and scan, and I never scan from any location to which someone can warp without scanning me down.

Even with all the above, you still get ganked. There are a lot of players in Eve for whom the only joy seems to be finding another player can get away with killing. A few will only kill you to take your cargo, others will defend territory, but the majority of them seem to be children from broken homes or who are bullied in real life and ganking is the only time they get to feel powerful.

My worst night I got killed three times, I lost a Probe and 2x Imicus. Even with that I was still cash positive, since the three ships cost me maybe 5m combined, and I got close to 15m from data and relic sites. The only thing that really annoyed me was the time lost. If your ship is only worth 1.5m or so ganking is just the price of doing business.

Final note... C1-C3 wormholes take patience and stealth, but they pay off. I had a good night two days ago, I got so involved in looting a wormhole system that I failed to notice the hole I'd entered through close behind me. Cue two days of looking for an exit in highsec reasonably close to my "home" system. As I jumped from wormhole to wormhole system, I kept hidden and looted sites when I could. It was intense, but very absorbing and fun. Kind of like "silent running" in the old submarine movies.

Yesterday I finally found an exit only 26 jumps from home... let me tell you, you've never been nervous until you've taken a half hour flight through systems from 0.5 - 0.9 sec level with 120m isk in cargo...in a frigate with no weapons.




Tuketh Sagus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-12-15 16:08:16 UTC
BayneNothos wrote:
Good info in the thread so far.

At the risk of cutting off a kill in my future, a few other things.

PvE in PvP ships if you can. Take a look around for Drake (if you want to continue on Drakes) fits that are a bit more offensively oriented. You will probably die still but you can at least attempt to take a couple with you.

Flying ships that aren't automatically assumed to be PvE ships. Drakes are PvE Ships, it's the rep it has. Flying other ships can give people pause, make them have to change up what they'd like to be flying. The only requirement for PvE is that it can do the site inside a time period that won't cause actual bodily self harm. I use a Retribution for C2 sites. I'm sure if you ask nicely in his advice column Trinket will help you out with some ideas.

Prop mods are good, use one.
Skill up and start T2'ing those modules up.
If you haven't trained it yet, go buy Thermodynamics now and train it to 3 at minimum, no exceptions. You see someone come to kill you, you overheat everything. Every small boost in capability is important. Heat is love, Heat is life.

Probably the most useful bit of advice I read when I started out in W space and started Pvp-ing.
http://www.mylootyourtears.com/?p=1352
TL:DR Decide now what you'll do when someone come calling for your corpse.

Change your overview settings to have "No Standing" as a coloured background. That way they'll clearly stand out on the overview when they come in and will give you an extra couple of seconds.

This'll be controversial but don't fly aligned. Instead stick around the wrecks and junk on grid and keep moving around it. Flying a cloaky close up to a moving target while dodging wrecks is annoying and increases the chance they'll mess it up and decloak in a bad spot. It'll also give you practice at manual piloting which is always fun.



What about sitting still next to your depot? Would this be any problem?

Time to find where Trinkets blog is...

Btw I think Im gonna swap to Brutix, but still need a gpod fit.

This is what I though:

[sleepix, Brutix]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Medium Armor Repairer II
400mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

250mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Thorium Charge M
Drone Link Augmentor II

Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Hammerhead I x5

Problems: An empty midslot...any idea what to put in there?
Because of the ammo the range is only 55km with max skills... If I swap ammo I can remove the Tracking computers, but what to place instead?
And what I do against frigs?

MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-12-15 16:41:03 UTC
Extra mid - consider an AB

Could you swap the DLA for a smartbomb for frigs? I doubt you'll be hurt by drone range, esp in magnetar where you can't target that far.

You COULD orbit your depot, for faster refit, but these sites don't scram, so you don't need to refit for stabs. That said you'll be safer further away from things that can be BM'ed and warped to such as wrecks, MTU, etc.

Consider staying away from the warping to give yourself a few extra seconds to escape.

Also, I doubt that you'll have enough capacitor when you have BS neuts on you. Look at cap recharge in mids/rigs. I also imagine you'd benefit from more armor tank, but I'm not sure as I haven't attempted low-end solo sites in awhile.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-12-15 16:52:15 UTC
Liet Ormand wrote:

1) When you see anyone else in the system, cloak up if you aren't already and stop doing things. If you see multiple ships enter the system, cloak up and scuttle (blow up) your core probes. Even if they can't see you, they can see your probes.



This is odd. Maybe you mean recall your probes?
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn
Querschlaeger
#26 - 2014-12-15 16:56:48 UTC
hey, as far as i read everything is said about minimizing the risk of getting ganked while ratting solo in w-space. there is no 100% way to avoid it but if you stay alert it won’t happen too often.

and thank you for your loot. guys like you are our PvE and we honour even the drop of a t1 frig. Smile
Tuketh Sagus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-12-15 17:28:51 UTC
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn wrote:
hey, as far as i read everything is said about minimizing the risk of getting ganked while ratting solo in w-space. there is no 100% way to avoid it but if you stay alert it won’t happen too often.

and thank you for your loot. guys like you are our PvE and we honour even the drop of a t1 frig. Smile



I dropped 1m :P I would give you 10 for letting me go.

Thanks for leaving the sleeper loot, i looted and salvaged all for 11m.

And just FYI, if you had waited 1 minute I would be gone already.

And my question.... why do you scramble me with tengu and dont just bubble?
Tuketh Sagus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-12-15 17:29:42 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Liet Ormand wrote:

1) When you see anyone else in the system, cloak up if you aren't already and stop doing things. If you see multiple ships enter the system, cloak up and scuttle (blow up) your core probes. Even if they can't see you, they can see your probes.



This is odd. Maybe you mean recall your probes?


Yea... i wont blow up my sisters every time xD
Tuketh Sagus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-12-15 17:30:28 UTC
I changed the fit a little... Looks like im cap stable with 50hp repir /s

[sleepix, Brutix]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Reactor Control Unit II

10MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

250mm Railgun II, Tungsten Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Tungsten Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Tungsten Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Tungsten Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Tungsten Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Tungsten Charge M
Medium EMP Smartbomb II

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hammerhead I x5
Zedutchman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-12-15 18:23:16 UTC
if you slap a T2 ECCM in your mid slot it'll make you twice as hard to scan down, I run 2 in my gas mining ship all the time.
Tuketh Sagus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-12-15 18:24:10 UTC
Zedutchman wrote:
if you slap a T2 ECCM in your mid slot it'll make you twice as hard to scan down, I run 2 in my gas mining ship all the time.


Or they warp to the site...
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn
Querschlaeger
#32 - 2014-12-15 18:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn
Tuketh Sagus wrote:
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn wrote:
hey, as far as i read everything is said about minimizing the risk of getting ganked while ratting solo in w-space. there is no 100% way to avoid it but if you stay alert it won’t happen too often.

and thank you for your loot. guys like you are our PvE and we honour even the drop of a t1 frig. Smile



I dropped 1m :P I would give you 10 for letting me go.

Thanks for leaving the sleeper loot, i looted and salvaged all for 11m.

And just FYI, if you had waited 1 minute I would be gone already.

And my question.... why do you scramble me with tengu and dont just bubble?



the bubble didn't come from the tengu. it can't drop them. the bubble came from my sabre. the tengu can only point you via scram or disruptor. we prefer scrams as someone mentioned above you could have fit a micro jump drive. maybe this is something for the last mid in your brutix.

and i don't worry about the 1m. one 1m is 1m and it's our way to make ISK because we're very lazy in farming NPC rats.
Zand Vor
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#33 - 2014-12-15 18:55:24 UTC
I changed your fit a bit, simply because I knew the tank was so light you would have a serious hard time in a C2.
My numbers show 194 eHP/sec, with all resists 60%+. Cap stable and actually you get some neut protection with the Large battery. You even have a modest 27k ehp buffer on top of it.

Don't use crap ammo. Spend the money on Navy or Tech 2. This is 700+ dps including drones.

[Brutix, Brutix Test]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Reactor Control Unit II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Capacitor Battery II

250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Salvager I

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II


Hobgoblin II x5

Please fix wormhole combat sites: c1 20mil - c2 40 mil - c3 80 mil - c4 160 mil - c5 320 mil - c6 640 mil

Allna
Aim High
#34 - 2014-12-15 19:42:57 UTC
Jack Hayson wrote:
I'll probably regret giving advice on how to avoid people like us... but anyway:
Tuketh Sagus wrote:
Also i never saw any other ship or even a combat probe on dscan. Heres a link of the latest kill.

Looks like you were in a combat anomaly. They don't need probes to find you there - only d-scan.
Also as you have noticed they use a cloaky tackler, so the only chance you have of noticing them is when the cloaky jumps into your system. If you have the entire system in d-scan range (~14AU) you have a slight chance of seeing him when you smash the d-scan button like a mad man - if the system is bigger chances are you can't see him anyway.
What most people do is that they put scouts on all wormholes and watch for new signatures, so you will notice when someone enters your system. (doesn't save you from someone who is already in your system, ofc)



Just want to add to this because often the response is "but alts I don't wanna", you don't have to actively "watch" the hole that you park an 'alt' on, wormholes are the only time in my ... many years of EVE time that I've felt the need to ENABLE sound (yes, Eve has sound!). You will hear the hole fire, and you can then:

1. safe up your pve ship
2. see who comes in with the alt
3. prepare to kill them with your non-pve ship.

Barring ability to do steps #1 and #2, the audible alert of a wormhole should be enough warning to you to get moving, at least for now until you establish the threat.

Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#35 - 2014-12-15 19:46:59 UTC
Tuketh Sagus wrote:
I like wormholes, even though c1-3 sites dont give much profit, its something. The problem for me are other players, who kill me. Any idea how to prevent it? I dscan, but most of the time the tackler is cloaky (tengu with cloak subsystems mostly) so it doesnt help. Also i never saw any other ship or even a combat probe on dscan. Heres a link of the latest kill.


https://zkillboard.com/kill/43074579/

Im quite new and cant afford a tengu myself, so this isnt an option.



Not possible solo char. You would need scouts to keep an eye on things. Otherwise, dscan might buy you time, but you are likely to die regardless if somebody really wants to.
Navigation Boy
Edge Dancers
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#36 - 2014-12-15 20:58:50 UTC
I often invite friends to a gank I did all the work for, and could have easily done alone. Why not? Friends share.

Anyway, the best high-level advice for how to avoid ganks, or stay alive in general, is to start ganking, and start killing other players.
Once you have seen what you have to do while hunting someone, you will see what can be done to make it harder. It would almost be better to ask people what tricks they use when hunting someone, and analyze that... IMO, solo hunting is the greatest game in Eve anyway, and one even new players with can partake in (shout-out to wingspanTT - I love his vids).


But for a partial, more immediate list:

  • After scanning a system out, lurk and watch for a long time (about 1/2 to 1 hr) to identify those who may be lurking about. It also gives hunters who spotted your probes time to get bored and look elsewhere.
  • Scout adjacent systems as well. The larger the sphere of your awareness, the better your odds of survival.
  • Verify every wormhole is no further than ~14.6 AU from where you plan to run sites.
  • Check dscan every 3-5 seconds. No less. Seriously.
  • Watch for new sigs popping up while you run sites. Verify their range immediately if possible. If further than 14.6, you could be in trouble.
  • Maintain high alert. When you get tired, or get carpal tunnel from dscan, just leave.
  • Do NOT warp back to the wormhole in an emergency. Make safe spots and ping spots.
  • Have the mindset that every cloaky ship is hunting you and currently creeping up on you. Even that buzzard you saw on scan for 3 seconds.
  • Be aware of what enemies have to do to find you. Run their process over in your mind. How would you kill someone like you? Eg: If you are at a sig, they either need to probe, or have pre-probed and waited until you showed up.
  • Set goals. Get in and get out. If your goal is to just run sites all day, then your day will end with an (attempted) gank.
  • Don't just warp to the site from the wormhole. Bounce somewhere else in the system first. If they are going to find and kill you, at least make them work for their supper.
  • Never do anything the same way twice. For example, don't run all of one kind of site, then all of another kind. Try to avoid patterns in everything you do in wormholes. This is general advice, and applies to more than just site-running.


Some more high-level stuff.
Every action tells a story. Take action to project the narrative you want them to have, and not the true story. It will slow their reactions. For a practical example: Instead of scanning out the system, then returning to highsec to get your drake, take your scan ship out a different hole, or scan more systems. Don't make it obvious that your focus is on that one system. Contrary to how it may seem, there are not 10 gankers in every single wormhole. They pick up your activity and then move assets to where they believe a gank is probable. Try to confuse them, and it will buy you time.
Be the fox and not the hen. This is the mindset you need to have.


Also, ask those who gank you for their side of the story. Wormholers are actually a very friendly group, as ruthless as they may seem. Tons of people would be happy to take you under their wing, if you ask.
Allna
Aim High
#37 - 2014-12-15 21:13:07 UTC

This was a great list, I wanted to emphasize a couple of them:

Navigation Boy wrote:

  • Check dscan every 3-5 seconds. No less. Seriously.


  • IMHO if you're not actively 'doing' something (like clicking on a module or something), you should be clicking the dscan button, always. Never should you have 'downtime' where you're 'waiting', any 'free' time is dscan time.

    Navigation Boy wrote:

  • Have the mindset that every cloaky ship is hunting you and currently creeping up on you. Even that buzzard you saw on scan for 3 seconds.


  • Every single one of the folks in our organization has a scrambler at minimum on their covert ops frigates. Why? This is why.

    Navigation Boy wrote:

  • Never do anything the same way twice. For example, don't run all of one kind of site, then all of another kind. Try to avoid patterns in everything you do in wormholes. This is general advice, and applies to more than just site-running.


  • I would go so far as to say that the VAST majority of 'ganks' we find ourselves a part of start with the target being repetitious and not 'mixing it up', i.e., being predictable.


    Navigation Boy wrote:

    Also, ask those who gank you for their side of the story. Wormholers are actually a very friendly group, as ruthless as they may seem. Tons of people would be happy to take you under their wing, if you ask.


    ^ This

    We've met more friends than enemies at the end of a gun in wormholes. One time a mostly highsec corp decided to come mine in our hole, the expected shenanigans ensued, and now they're a part of our family (after they died a bit). One of our closest friends lost his Orca to us, etc. Wormhole dudes/dudettes (srsly they exist, we have a gal in our group!) are some of the most down to earth people I've ever met in EVE, and some of the nicest as well. Even the big powerhouse "supergroups" in wormholes are awesome people, met a few at vegas. :)
    Liet Ormand
    Sons of Bacchus
    #38 - 2014-12-15 21:15:38 UTC
    Derath Ellecon wrote:
    Liet Ormand wrote:

    1) When you see anyone else in the system, cloak up if you aren't already and stop doing things. If you see multiple ships enter the system, cloak up and scuttle (blow up) your core probes. Even if they can't see you, they can see your probes.



    This is odd. Maybe you mean recall your probes?


    Yeah. Blowing them up is an option, too, if they're cheap.

    MooMooDachshundCow
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #39 - 2014-12-15 21:27:41 UTC
    Liet Ormand wrote:
    Yeah. Blowing them up is an option, too, if you're stupid or have something more expensive in your cargo and no room left in your launcher somehow


    Fixed

    Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.

    Tuketh Sagus
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #40 - 2014-12-15 23:33:11 UTC
    Allna wrote:


    Navigation Boy wrote:

    Also, ask those who gank you for their side of the story. Wormholers are actually a very friendly group, as ruthless as they may seem. Tons of people would be happy to take you under their wing, if you ask.


    ^ This

    We've met more friends than enemies at the end of a gun in wormholes. One time a mostly highsec corp decided to come mine in our hole, the expected shenanigans ensued, and now they're a part of our family (after they died a bit). One of our closest friends lost his Orca to us, etc. Wormhole dudes/dudettes (srsly they exist, we have a gal in our group!) are some of the most down to earth people I've ever met in EVE, and some of the nicest as well. Even the big powerhouse "supergroups" in wormholes are awesome people, met a few at vegas. :)



    Yea, the people who ganked me seem to be nice (btw do you mind if I messge you?) , I just made some bad experience when I got ganked the first time, after saying good fight I got a reply like this wasnt even a fight scrub. But yea, besides that all gankers and people who tried were nice, and once i also was able to help a ganker with his fit.