These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Hate to Miners

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
#141 - 2014-12-15 23:31:13 UTC
Goethe wrote:
I am the Spirit that denies!
And rightly too; for all that doth begin
Should rightly to destruction run;


I don't really think that there are a lot of people who really hate miners. However a mining barge is a spaceship just like any other and as such a commodity. For the market to be alive you need people who make them, people who use them and people who blow them up, preferrably in equal amounts.
I saw a post further up this thread where somebody conjured the hypothetical situation of all miners suddenly stopping to do their thing, nullifying the supply of minerals. Naturally, this would be a disaster. However if suddenly all pvp combat pilots suddenly stopped doing their thing, it'd nullify the demand for minerals. And a fool is he who thinks that situation would be any less horrid.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#142 - 2014-12-16 00:21:35 UTC
Of course one common way to avoid wardecs is just disband your corp and fleet up as solo players from whatever NPC corps your char drops back to by default. There are lot of activities in EVE that require you to be in a corp but mining is not one of them.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#143 - 2014-12-16 00:38:59 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Of course one common way to avoid wardecs is just disband your corp and fleet up as solo players from whatever NPC corps your char drops back to by default. There are lot of activities in EVE that require you to be in a corp but mining is not one of them.


You still need that compression POS, and corp hangars make it that much easier.
Otherwise, yeah, if mining weren't dead and gone at the moment, it could be done in a fleet with a one-man corp managing the POS.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#144 - 2014-12-16 00:42:28 UTC
Violet Hurst wrote:
Goethe wrote:
I am the Spirit that denies!
And rightly too; for all that doth begin
Should rightly to destruction run;


I don't really think that there are a lot of people who really hate miners. However a mining barge is a spaceship just like any other and as such a commodity. For the market to be alive you need people who make them, people who use them and people who blow them up, preferrably in equal amounts.
I saw a post further up this thread where somebody conjured the hypothetical situation of all miners suddenly stopping to do their thing, nullifying the supply of minerals. Naturally, this would be a disaster. However if suddenly all pvp combat pilots suddenly stopped doing their thing, it'd nullify the demand for minerals. And a fool is he who thinks that situation would be any less horrid.


Actually, not. That would cut the demand for PvP ships indeed, however, a lot of ships are used and lost in PvE as well. They would also keep a market for ammo and other expendable items alive. Of course, PvP and PvE losses aren't really comparable, but they do exist, and they consume ammo, lose drones, take up mining crystals, set up new planets with PI, etc.

Thus, situation will be quite bad, but not nearly as bad as PvE players quitting.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#145 - 2014-12-16 03:03:16 UTC
I consider miners to serve a useful role as the bottom of the food chain. Someone's got to do it.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Justin Zaine
#146 - 2014-12-16 03:12:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Justin Zaine
Hate?

Hate is a strong word.

Even so, people act as though the emotions they convey in-game bear any quantifiable resemblance to their real life identity and mental state. I don't hate anybody in Eve - In fact i'd probably get along great with a lot of the people I've had disagreements with if I were to bump into them on the street. Who I am in this game is about as true-to-life as my character's six-pack abs.

I've been a downright ******* to some people during my time in Eve. Do I hate them? Not at all. I do what I do because I can (Because I find it entertaining to some extent,) because it's part of the game and because that is Eve. Eventually everyone gets a turn to bend over and grab their ankles, for however brief a moment, and I make sure not to take it personally when It's my turn.

He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.

He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
#147 - 2014-12-16 03:24:54 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
If the health of an online game is measured in the amount of "raging opinionated threads" then EVE online is very healthy (yes a non-stealth Eve is not dying post).

It is amazing how blinkered both sides of this age old argument really are. For my part, yes i will afk mine from time to time (i say this knowing it may put a target on my head Roll ) and if i get caught out, you won't get a "gf" from me, as it is not a fight at all. You will get a well played, a self deprecating laugh at myself and a "have fun" remark as i disappear. The reason why i can do that?

Easy, this is a game. It is not life or death (since we keep on coming back in our clones anyway). It's for enjoyment in the method that we each individually want. Yes we may disagree on what is the best or right playing style, but all playing styles are allowed on here. Yes PVP is the dominant one as it is a game where one of the major aspects is PVP, but that doesn't mean that it is the only voice that should be heard and all others should be ignored.

Both sides whine about this topic. Miners go "Why don't you leave me alone to play how i want to play...CCP make them stop". PVP/Gankers" How dare you play with no risk and play PVP like this game is about...CCP get rid of Concord".

I say "Suck it up the both of you". Miners, when we go out into the belts to mine, we should accept that we will lose a ship because the sandbox allows it to happen, because that is the risk we should be aware of , and if replacing a ship because it is so expensive...well i don't know what you are doing with your ISk after selling. To the PVP/Gankers, you speak of miners/highsec being risk averse and yet you want Concord removed or lessened so that your risk is removed so you gank at will...hypocritical much, lead by example and accpt the risk to yourself because you want to gank in the sandbox that allows you to do so and accept the consequences.

Not saying we should all get along, just realise that all playing styles are allowed in this game and do what you want in game, don't take it out of game to remove anothers ability to play it in the style they wish.

TL:DR version...Just enjoy the game for what it is and what it can be and allows, you numpties P


*Snip* Removed a reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#148 - 2014-12-16 03:28:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
I don't think anyone hates miners. They find their chosen role bemusing, maybe. While some like James315 express this with wit and an entertaining turn of phrase, others like the EVE-O crowd are so ploddingly literal and dull that it may be easily misinterpreted as hate.
Vapor Ventrillian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2014-12-16 03:52:15 UTC
Why cant we do both man....gawd peeps be hating each other Cool

*believes haters secretly wish they were in long skirts singing abba*

The Evil Overlord of Scope, self elected as all good overlords should be
Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#150 - 2014-12-16 04:07:45 UTC
Gankers spend all day justifying messing with the playstyles of anyone they can.
This is for tears, and lulz. Miners are told that its just pixels. Just a game.

CCP messes with ganking playstyle. Gankers write endless... ENDLESS pages of epic diatribe and unhappiness about them durn ol carebears getting their playstyle ****** with.

You ganker dudes spend as much time crying about your butthurt as you do inflicting it on others. Get a freakin life, guys. Go "create content". Stop abloo-blooing because the people who you screw over get you screwed over.

And tell your homie Psychotic Monk that Belligerent Unupdateables is not a content creation blog anymore.
(And tell Feyd to stop freaking crying, man. Seriously. Your blog is great, when youre not gnashing teeth and wailing about "carebears".)
ISD Flidais Asagiri
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#151 - 2014-12-16 06:06:29 UTC
Greetings Everyone,

Please Please for the love of all things holy in EVE, keep your posts on topic and away from personal attacks. These topics are always emotionally charged and trend toward over moderation. With your help we can sit back and observe instead of breaking out the MOD hammer on off topic posts. Press on

On On

ISD Flidais Asagiri Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Josef Djugashvilis
#152 - 2014-12-16 13:51:39 UTC
What surprises me, is that CCP allow these really tired 'tough guys' disparaging other folk who do not play the game the way 'they' want them to, to be aired time and time again.

So long as folk do not break the rules as laid down by CCP, how folk choose to play is and should be, entirely up to them.

This is not a signature.
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#153 - 2014-12-16 14:05:27 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Because retriever, covetor, mackinaw and hulk can tank 1 extra destroyer at best (unless you bling-tank and ask for it), while Procurer and Skiff are more tanky than former without any yield sacrifice.


Well, that sounds unbalanced. Looks like we need to nerf the Proc and Skiff.


After we nerf grief decs. They are also severely unbalanced in favor of the grief deccer.

btw even if those nerfs happen they won't mean a **** - mining for profit is currently dead anyway, and mining for what you need is going to continue anyway, it's gonna be done in a max yield non-bling fit on the highest possible yield barge which isn't bling, because otherwise you'll be looking like one of those sad tossers ratting in pvp fit thinking it'll do something for them in case 12 gankbears drop on them.
Uhh.
What?
How are they severely unbalanced?
You can spend a couple of weeks training your corp into Kitsunes and Hyenas. Web and ECM from 20k away all war targets. They need to bring more forces. A single Kitsune can keep any cruiser jammed with 80%+ chance, unless it has ECCM or is a T3 with the sensor strength subsytem, it just needs to fit for racial ECM and no tank. 4 jammers, 1 mwd, signal distortion amplifiers. Hyena is 3 t2 or m4 webs, 1 mwd.
Kitsune with Signal Dispersion IV, 4*Hypnos Ion Field ECM I and 2* Signal Distortion amplifier has a 96.7% jam chance against a 1bn isk proteus (18 sensor strength). Oh sure, they might just fit ECCM, but it's still a blaster boat. 3 webs from a Hyena with Electronic Attack Ships IV can make a ship move at 6.4% of its original speed from 26k away.
If the jam succeeds, you can just warp off.
If it doesn't, hope you won't die in the next 60s or take the 25m loss.

Their only counter is to bring more numbers or change their fits. The first is annoying, because they probably have multiple wardecs and don't want to dedicate so many resources to a single group, the 2nd can be annoying, because they need to gimp their fit in some way. Such as my proteus fit. To fit an ECCM mod, you either drop your mwd, scram or web, or you lose 137 dps or some tank and become unable to permarun the MWD (not that you should be doing so, but just in case).

*Snip* Please refrain from using my name to prove a point. ISD Ezwal.

From my understanding, people don't really hate miners. They're just easy targets, so why not kill them?


The big issue people run into with wardecs is that if the decced corp assemble a fleet like this the wardeccers can just dock up and play on their Alts while they wait for you to get bored and go back to pve.

Most of the players in the wardecced corp can't do that. If they want to do something other than sit around in ECM ships all day they risk being killed. It creates a big imbalance where the deccers get to determine when engagements happen.

The smart move is just to drop corp for the duration of the war.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#154 - 2014-12-16 14:21:55 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
What surprises me, is that CCP allow these really tired 'tough guys' disparaging other folk who do not play the game the way 'they' want them to, to be aired time and time again.

So long as folk do not break the rules as laid down by CCP, how folk choose to play is and should be, entirely up to them.

I agree. If miners do not want to protect themselves and allow me to repeatedly explode them, it is entirely up to them.

I don't hate miners, I am just playing the game the way it was designed as "the villain". And since I am not breaking any of the rules as laid down by CCP, I should be allowed to play the game without being subjected to death threats and vitriol while I engage in my form of elite PvP with highsec residents.

And for the record most miners don't hurl homophobic or racial abuse at me, or threaten me and my loved ones with death in real life, so I don't paint them all with that brush - in fact far more engage me in entertaining or interesting repartee during or after my ganking endeavours. But even those that do go with the vile insults I don't really hate, more pity for their inability to separate a video game from real life.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Sol Project
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#155 - 2014-12-16 14:31:49 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
What surprises me, is that CCP allow these really tired 'tough guys' disparaging other folk who do not play the game the way 'they' want them to, to be aired time and time again.

So long as folk do not break the rules as laid down by CCP, how folk choose to play is and should be, entirely up to them.

Exactly ... and because "it's entirely up to them" ...
... and legal within the rules ...
... some people prefer to gank those who let themselves get ganked.

Ladies of New Eden YC 117 by Indahmawar Fazmarai

Warning: NSFW! Barely legal girls in underwear!

Diana Kim > AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#156 - 2014-12-16 15:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.



Thread reopened.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#157 - 2014-12-16 19:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal.

Evil RatKid
Josef Djugashvilis
#158 - 2014-12-16 19:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Removed a reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

This is not a signature.
Hevymetal
POT Corp
#159 - 2014-12-16 19:32:54 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
Hi All,

As a miner, i come across this all the time, but what i don't understand is, why so much hate towards miners?

Eve is a sandbox that every game wants to be, where people get to make there own stories, it's not whole PVP, PVE or whatever.

So why the hate? QuestionQuestion


Why do bullies pick on kids on the playground? Their inferiority complex about the size of their E-Peen and their importance makes them want to go blow Sh*t up to show how leet of a PVPer they are and how much better they are then you. As a usual matter of course these individuals tend to pick on the weakest opponents they can find to ensure their entitled victory (Cause they are superior don't ya know). Thus miners are typically these type of victims left at the bottom of the pond to be fed upon by the inhabitants of scummy pond bottoms.

No matter what aspect of Eve you participate in, there will always be haters and whiners mad at you for some unknown reason. Go with the flow. Mine away and enjoy the ride ::)
Anslo
Scope Works
#160 - 2014-12-16 19:39:39 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Removed a reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]