Intergalactic Summit

Exactly, peanuts.




Thank you for your heartfelt congratulations, it means a lot. I'll relay it to the team.

I am informed, that Gallente Navy elements have frequently been encountered in situations such as, trying to protect a pedophile rapist Gallente pop singer from the forces of justice.

Or those times when Gallente Navy forces are building settlements on other people's planets, declaring those settlements part of the Federation, so that an invasion to "protect Gallente citizens", can be justified.

Should we wish to go down that path, I am sure more examples may be found.

Not to put words in Andreus' mouth here, but if I were in his shoes... Yes, I'd be perfectly comfortable with that, actually.

There's this little thing called "intellectual honesty" you see. A claim of wrongdoing on the part of the Empire is not a tacit claim of infallibility on that of the Federation.

Besides, "tu quoque" - AKA Appeal to Hypocrisy - is an informal logical fallacy. It's an obfuscation, a distraction, a dodge, a "hey, look over there" and run away. You're not addressing the point, you're just hoping that by pointing out one side's wrongdoings your own will either be overlooked or else somehow exonerated.

The existence of illegal "we-will-disavow-all-knowledge" operations conducted by the Federation Navy in no way invalidates any observation of the existence of such operations being conducted by the Amarr Navy. Nor does the existence of one excuse, legitimize or justify the other.

If you're trying to say that any condemnation of one side's illegal operations must also constitute a condemnation of the other's then, well... Yes. Agreed. That should be obvious.

So, what's your actual point, Blake?

We're all in glass houses, Pieter. if nobody ever threw stones then nothing would get done about it.

Making the world a better place by definition requires breaking the status quo.

My house is made of high density composits and built on a shock absorbing platform deep in a mountian. I'm safe from stones.... and gunfire, and rockets, and missiles, and orbitals......

In all fairness, I think there is somewhat of a disparity between military espionage and mistreatment of prisoners of war - Which every Empire indulges in to some extent, I am certain - And slave raids on mostly civilian populations.

The Federation aren't conducting slave raids.

While the Federations treatment of Caldari prisoners of war (Especially under Rodens administration) has been shown to be considerably unpleasant at times, it must be said that when one makes the choice to take up a sword, one is also inherently accepting that ones life is being thrown into the winds of fate. That you are choosing to bring ill things to your enemy, and thus will likely have ill things brought to you, in turn. It is foul and unacceptable that those men and women are being treated in the way that they are, but to some degree, they chose to willingly throw themselves into danger.

I've heard no accounts of the Federation abducting anyone other than military personel or those who work extremely close to them, but whatever the case, they certainly don't go down to planets or into stations and round up Caldari men, women and children in the regard Amarrian slavers do. The situations are both grim, but this does not make them comparable.

Actually, you know what? I'm going to come right out and say it. Every time I, as a Federal loyalist, make some criticism of another empire's supposed moral superiority, I'm inundated with a deluge of whining, wheedling pissants wringing their hands, stamping their feet and screaming "b-b-but the Federation...!"

Let me address this inept red-herring clearly and concisely.

Vast weight of historical evidence on the IGS demonstrates that almost any conversation in which someone has to bring up "but the Federation...!" has absolutely nothing to do with the Federation. This thread, in fact, is not about the Federation. It's about the Empire, and the many, many false claims of moral superiority or righteousness that people supporting it - and hilariously enough, it's not even actual Amarrian loyalists who are doing most of this defending, it's the foreign mercenaries who won the battle for them. Fun times, guys, but if the Amarr ever did conquer the cluster, your day of the rope would be quick to arrive.

I could, at this moment, spend paragraphs defending the Federation. But I don't need to. That's the point of a red herring - to get people to waste time and effort arguing a point they don't actually need to argue. This is not a conversation about the Federation. This is a conversation about the Empire and how flimsy their justification for their actions is. You want this to be a conversation about the Federation because it's easier to attack the Federation's misdeeds than to defend your own.

Even if the Federation is as unethical as you claim, the most this argument even accomplishes is to say "well, the Federation's not an immaculate moral paragon, so we don't have to be either!" Surprise - you're Amarr (or you support them). Your religion literally says that you have to do that. Your misdeeds are not absolved by the misdeeds of others.

Because you do sanction it. Because it's literally so trivial to prove that it could be done in ten minutes if anyone with sufficient standings were to go to a level 2 security agent anywhere in Minmatar space and recover the requisite documents.


I want the Amarr Empire to admit that it doesn't have a divine right to conquer or rule the cosmos. I want the Amarr to renounce the reclaiming. I want the Amarr to stay inside their own borders. I want the Amarr to treat other races as equals, not as inferiors and potential servants. Until this happens, I will continue to rebuff any effort whatsoever they make to do otherwise - with force, if neccessary.

As for the source of all the cluster's ills? Hardly, but the Empire is the source of the Blood Raiders, the Equilibrium of Man and it had a very significant hand in allowing Sansha Kuvakei to become as powerful as he did, it's utlimately responsible for a vast number of problems the Minmatar had and continue to have, it's responsible for the total annihilation of two entire ethnic groups and their attendant cultures, one of your heirs went crazy and invaded the Federation and it provided financial and political support to Tibus Heth's disastrous tyranny until the very last possible second. Not all of the cluster's ills, but a damn sight more than its fair share.