Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The benefits of null are pretty weak imo. I mean, plenty of nullsec residents create high sec or faction warfare alts for their income. Nobody in high sec creates a null sec alt for their income.

People go to null because they find it fun. You shouldn't put fun and efficiency in competition with each other.

But as many players who get highly involve with PVP have mentioned, they typically don't purxhase anything higher than +3, if anything at all.
So I'd say the isk sink is much smaller than you would think.

Somewhat off topic but no, you either spend time mining or doing other things. I do other things and buy the ore on reasonable market orders for any manufacturing. I rarely salvage and loot combat anoms either as my time is better spent chasing down other sites and escalations.

I will agree that you pretty much accept, you're going to lose your implants in Null. It's the nature of the beast. Personally I flew with two +4 implants in whatever atts I was using at the time.
In low and high sec if you have your wits about you, pod loss is rare.

Now I do not go with the logic that a lack of a bonus, means a loss. But I do see that Null residents do have the short end of the stick and I do wonder if the rewards are any better there tbh.

But anyway I do like the current state of implants and atts. But I do see the argument for their removal. What I disagree with, is a replacement like the OP that's seems far worse IMHO. CCP just stopped us having to log in with skills, why should they now introduce a mechanic that replaces that but at far more regular intervals? It just doesn't make sense and I dislike it for that most of all.

I have an idea, it's rough but hear me out.
So how about we set training at a set limit for all (to be whatever) and utilise attributes for game play instead?
They could be linked to weapons, repair, industry, trade, mining etc. Dependant upon what you have mapped, depends on how well the skill bonuses for those mechanics work. Or may even add a % bonus to those fields.

This could even be linked with ON/OFF grid boosting. Or even new types of clones could boost a certain attribute, at the expense of another.

So say you are a combat PvPer. You may wish for your guns to be optimal, so perception will be your primary.
Or you may wish for more of a logistics/tank role and willpower would be the primary.

It may be that you only get one choice and we do away with primary and secondary.
It's just a rough idea, but maybe you guys could flesh it out some. That's if you like it of course.

I'm not averse to attributes adding to gameplay but this would then re-inforce keeping remaps (maybe 2 per year though instead of 1). I'd still keep implants though :)

First time I've seen you talk arse by the way...

As I've stated many times, attributes and effecting items have no ties to the game in relation to their effects on other players either directly or indirectly.
Again, tieing to CCPs comments on med clones and how they do not effect the Eve Universe.

You can argue that the implants do have effect on the Universe, as they're an actual item provided by other players on the market, but what I'm getting at is that the actual use of these items do not effect the Eve Universe.

As an example, we'll use skill implants, as they're the most like item in game.

Skill implants can be earned by players through drops and/or LP stores.
When applied to a character, they have to potential of causing a ripple effect, in that, they may boost your ability just enough to win out a fight you wouldn't have otherwise won. That win literally has the potential that could very well lead to the fall of a major alliance.

Now, attribute implants can also be earned through drops and/or LP stores.
However, there effect on the Eve Universe generally stops at purchase. Once you put them on, they have no effect on New Eden as a whole, much like med clones didn't.
Slave implants are another thing though, as they're essentially combining skill and attribute implants.


In response to your comment directly; Yes, if you limit youself to one activity in Eve, it has its good and bad sides.
However, those goods and bads, again, directly effect New Eden.
If you focus only on PVP your wins and losses, limited isk gain, and whatever else have an effect that ripples out.
Your attributes and attribute implants have no effect on that.

I have no problem with skill implants, and I would not be averse to attribute implants and attributes being moved to effect a line of skills, instead of skill training.

This would fall in line of what I was suggesting in my comment above.

However, here's a bit of an idea on that.

I don't know what a point in an attribute would count as, in regards to bonus, but that would have to be factored.

CCP could take remaps and instead of tieing them you a 1 year give away, they could instead be a new isk sink.
You pay isk to a medical facility in order to remap. Apon pod loss, you remap is reverted.

All attribute implant slots are merged into 1 slot, thus you're only able to have an implant that effects 1 attribute at a time, and the points provided by a implant cannot be remapped into another skill.

The only problem I see is, would removing attributes from charisma (as an example), hinder your skills effected by charisma?


Edit.... I would also like to note that if this change were ever made, the attributes effecting skills would need to be changed, and only one attribute would be tied to a skill like.

IE

Intelligence - effects spaceship command, Science, Sub Systems, and rigging
Memory - Corp Management, Electronics, Engineering, and Targeting
Perception - Gunnery, Missiles, Drones, and Scanning
Willpower - Leadership, Navigation, Armor, and Shields
Charisma - Social, Trade, Planet Management, Industry, Production, and Resource Processing

Again, the only question I have is whether remapping would essentially nerf the skills effected by attributes you remove points from.
I would also go to say that a remap couldn't be reverted. They would be tied to that jump clone.
So, the only way to revert a remap would be to get yourself podded.
This would just be to keep players from easily remapping on the fly to suit the situation..

Though, the isk cost for a remap could be enough on its own to balance this without the need for Pod loss.
Assuming the remaps are relatively expensive.
I was thinking somewhere in the 100-200 mil range.... Not overly expensive, but definitely setting players apart as far as their productivity in Eve.




I tried to set up the skills in a way to where you couldn't just focus one attribute in order to accomplish all the things you were needing to do, thus keeping a player from putting all their points into one attribute.

For example:

Gunnery, spaceship command, and missiles used to all be tied to the same effecting attributes.
Doing so would have allowed a player to be extremely effective with just one attribute.

So, I separated them.

Now, you'll have to balance two attributes, but you may hinder your tanking, fitting, and industry related capabilities.

If you want fitting and tanking capability, you would have to hinder your ship and weapons skills.

If you want to focus on industry and ship production, you would retain ability in spaceship command for the sake of being somewhat competitive, but you would lack in weapons, tank, and fitting.

I mean, you'd likely have to put a lot more thought into what goes where, but ultimately I think it could be balanced fairly well.
It would essentially be like the penalties you get for fitting rigs and/or certain modules.

The only skill tree I didn't include in this was implant related skills. I don't feel that implants themselves should be effected by this, as there would likely be a way to "game" the system, such as putting all your points into the attribute effecting implants, and then just getting the implants that suit your need.



Edit...

As a side note, I would also like to mention that I would like to see skill implants removed from slot requirements.
The only limitation would be that you couldn't fit two implants effecting the same skill. This would fit lore wise at it would essentially fry your brain to do so.
So, you'd be able to load your head down on implants effecting cruise missiles, but you wouldn't be able to fit matching implants.
This would mean you'd be better with cruise, but you wouldn't be able to simply stack 5 cruise damage implants and go to town.



Edit 2..
I'm wondering if I should start a new thread on this idea..Half credit given to Mag's, of course.

Well, yes, and no...

If you were delegated to a specific task, such as scanning, then yes, it would basically be a requirement.

However, if you were in WH space, solo/small gang roaming, and possibly even solo PVE content, you would want to have a more balanced attribute line up, so that you didn't have a specific skill set that was hindered.

As far as the attribute implants, they would essentially be icing on the cake, in that they would allow you to focus on your more preferred skill set.

For instance, I fly a Golem in lvl 4 missions. I don't want to hinder my tank, dps, mobility, or any other skill that would hinder my capabilities. Plus, I do a lot of reprocessing of items, so I'd want to keep all my skills evenly balanced.
However, I would be able to choose one of those skill sets that would best suit me.
My ship bonuses are fine, tank is awesome, etc. etc...
The only places I would likely want to put that attribute implant is into weapons or fitting.
With that, I could either slightly increase my fitting capability, allowing me to fit a smartbomb/salvagers or whatever, or I could stick with my fit and slightly increase the effectiveness of my missile damage/exp vel/exp rad.

Now that I've thought about it like that, I actually quite like the idea, because in my mind it's an even more meaningful choice than even skill implants currently provide.

Edit...
I would also like to mention that it's no different than players that have jump clones that have skill implants setup for a specific task. You would be able to do the same with attributes and the 1 attribute implant, as it would be tied to the clone and not the character.