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PI Taxes?

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Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-11-29 20:49:15 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Endovior wrote:
Since I logged in shortly before the reboot, didn't have time to do much... but I did quickly notice the new and vastly increased taxes on import/export (in nullsec, from the Interbus Offices). I was given to understand that the prior tax rate was something like 5%, and Interbus would now be charging something like 17%.

Previously, doing an Import/Export to fuel one of my factory worlds cost 14k and 7k ISK. Just now, I noticed it cost 1.4 million ISK and 700k ISK... so essentially, instead of the tax rate merely tripling, as we were advised, it seems to have multiplied a hundredfold.

...That can't be working as intended.



You cry baby bitches moaning about high sec players in NPC and low taxes are now crying because of 17% tax on PI ????

CRY ME A RIVER little Jimmy



0/10

First off, the OP mentioned nullsec. Second interbus CO's are only Low, Null, WH. High sec CO's are now owned by Concord.

Try again.
Bridget Helm
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-11-29 20:51:09 UTC
Sebero Sinak wrote:
The tax rate in wormholes is 170% , i did the math. i am assuming nullsec is the same . That means it costs 1020 isk per m3 to export simple products like Consumer Electronics.

Yes pos fuels are going to go thru the atmosphere as relates to price.....they may even achieve escape velocity and leave orbit on thier way up.


Sounds to me like a simple decimal error in the change. Easy to do, easy to correct if it is that.
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2011-11-29 20:53:27 UTC
Bridget Helm wrote:
Sebero Sinak wrote:
The tax rate in wormholes is 170% , i did the math. i am assuming nullsec is the same . That means it costs 1020 isk per m3 to export simple products like Consumer Electronics.

Yes pos fuels are going to go thru the atmosphere as relates to price.....they may even achieve escape velocity and leave orbit on thier way up.


Sounds to me like a simple decimal error in the change. Easy to do, easy to correct if it is that.


Not an error. Refer to these links:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=33468&find=unread

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#24 - 2011-11-29 20:55:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Teamosil
Bridget Helm wrote:
Sounds to me like a simple decimal error in the change. Easy to do, easy to correct if it is that.


It's not an error. It's 17%, as designed. For example, for T1 products like coolant and consumer electronics and whatnot, they use a base value of 9,000 ISK per unit for calculating the taxes. In a wormhole they charge you 17% of that amount to export it. So, for example, the cost of exporting 333 coolant is 9000 * 333 * .17 = 509,490 ISK.

But, yeah, OP is correct, it is like 100 times as much as the tax was before, which for whatever reason, I wasn't expecting that huge of a jump, but the percentages are what they said they would be.
Linka Romanov
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-11-29 20:59:21 UTC
Bridget Helm wrote:
Sebero Sinak wrote:
The tax rate in wormholes is 170% , i did the math. i am assuming nullsec is the same . That means it costs 1020 isk per m3 to export simple products like Consumer Electronics.

Yes pos fuels are going to go thru the atmosphere as relates to price.....they may even achieve escape velocity and leave orbit on thier way up.


Sounds to me like a simple decimal error in the change. Easy to do, easy to correct if it is that.


Not really. CCP recalculated the baseline price upon which the tax is determined to more accurately reflect current market conditions. So to take robotics for example, instead of paying 10% on the fantasyland 6,000 isk price originally launched with tyrranis, now you pay 20% of the current market price, 70,000.

Tax rates going forward are based off of the new market baseline value, not the previous "made up out of thin air" baseline price.

It's all on this wiki page:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice

Taxation

Tax % is taken off the material's taxable value.
This value is set by CCP and is based off the market values in November 2011
Import is always half of export tax

The taxable value are the same for all items in the same tier
Advanced Commodities: 1,350,000.00 ISK
Specialized Commodities: 70,000.00 ISK
Refined Commodities: 9,000.00 ISK
Basic commodities: 500.00 ISK
Planet Resources: 5,00 ISK
Jita Alt666
#26 - 2011-11-29 20:59:40 UTC
Dear OP:

Option A: Destroy the interbus CO. Put up your own. Make profit. Laugh at fools paying literally hundrefolds times more tax than you.

Option B: Cry on forums.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-11-29 21:00:03 UTC
You guys are so good at this. :v:

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Bridget Helm
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-11-29 21:04:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Bridget Helm
pmchem wrote:
Bridget Helm wrote:
Sebero Sinak wrote:
The tax rate in wormholes is 170% , i did the math. i am assuming nullsec is the same . That means it costs 1020 isk per m3 to export simple products like Consumer Electronics.

Yes pos fuels are going to go thru the atmosphere as relates to price.....they may even achieve escape velocity and leave orbit on thier way up.


Sounds to me like a simple decimal error in the change. Easy to do, easy to correct if it is that.


Not an error. Refer to these links:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=33468&find=unread


I was just going off what Sebero said, and what was in the original dev blog post;
"Customs Offices in High Sec will remain under the authority of CONCORD who will, in turn, charge doubled import and export taxes"

If the new level is correct then it is and PI in high sec is dead.
SpaceSquirrels
#29 - 2011-11-29 21:05:12 UTC
It is ridiculous. I have all my PI in low sec and way way too much. Can't assemble your own if youre in a npc corp from my understanding or if in a small 5-10 man corp probably not going to happen.

Guess we should just raise prices on everything then other will stop complaining about our PI tax complaining. Just needs to trickle down a bit.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#30 - 2011-11-29 21:05:40 UTC
Working as intended. Put up your own so we can blow them up please.
Endovior
PFU Consortium
#31 - 2011-11-29 21:09:18 UTC
Hmm. Okay, so the tax rate is higher, AND the base values upon which those tax rates were assessed were recalculated. Got it; must've missed mention of that last somewhere in the flurry of devblogs and features. The new values aren't totally unreasonable (read: I'm still making a profit); they're just much higher than I was expecting. *shrugs*

Jetcans aren't a valid option for me, since you need to import stuff to factory worlds... but it shouldn't take too long before people start replacing the Interbus ones in my area, so I don't mind too much.
Jita Alt666
#32 - 2011-11-29 21:10:06 UTC
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
It is ridiculous. I have all my PI in low sec and way way too much. Can't assemble your own if youre in a npc corp from my understanding or if in a small 5-10 man corp probably not going to happen.

Guess we should just raise prices on everything then other will stop complaining about our PI tax complaining. Just needs to trickle down a bit.


Please raise robotics over 120kpu so I can start bleeding my stock pile.
Kal'ar Rinah
Doomheim
#33 - 2011-11-29 21:11:12 UTC
i'm not the best with numbers so my interpretation might be off but from


Quote:
At the heart of customs lie taxes (or "tariffs," if you are technical). The new tax formula will allow the owner of the Customs Office to modify the tax between 0 and 100%. 100% of what you may wonder? Good question; every resource that can pass through the Customs Office has an associated "tariff." This is an ISK value controlled by CCP and this is the value that is taxed. The taxes you paid before can be translated into this new system, and that would equal 5% tax in a player owned customs office. So, if you set the tax to 5% you will pay the exact same as before.


now i'm in highsec so these are the numbers i've got

if 5% is what was paid before to tax offices and from the 2070 coolant i exported yesterday and paid 18,630 isk to export that would indicate the export price on coolant was 9 isk / unit

from the 400 coolant i checked earlier today the export cost was 360,000 giving an export cost of of 900 isk / unit

and that's just the final "refining" cost, not taking into account any increase export/import cost for the other materials

so if the old tax was basically 5% surely that means the current tax is 500% a hell of a lot more than the rather ambiguous patch notes indicate:

Quote:
All high security Customs Offices are transferred to CONCORD who will charge doubled import and export taxes.


some sort of response would be much appreciated as between the massive PI cost increase and the fact fuel costs are spiking anyway due to the fuel blocks using HW/LO at maximum does make me quite concerned

also just to make it clear i'm not against a PI cost increase before the patch the cost was peanuts, but increasing the price by a factor of 100 seems just a little excessive expecially considering you wanted new players to get into PI

oh and i'm not going to even attempt to work out what this is going to do to the price of T2 ships (con blocks anybody?)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#34 - 2011-11-29 21:14:23 UTC
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
It is ridiculous. I have all my PI in low sec and way way too much. Can't assemble your own if youre in a npc corp from my understanding or if in a small 5-10 man corp probably not going to happen.

Guess we should just raise prices on everything then other will stop complaining about our PI tax complaining. Just needs to trickle down a bit.


God forbid you have to join a corp and take some risk to earn better isk
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#35 - 2011-11-29 21:15:06 UTC
Just checked on exporting 5K precious metals. Before, cost around 2K or so... now? 617,000 isk.

C'mon Nullabor... you really can't have intended for this degree of absolute stupidity to taint the whole PCO thing. What the hell are you people thinking. You really screwed the pooch on this one. You should be embarassed if this is intended.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#36 - 2011-11-29 21:16:56 UTC
GhettoChick wrote:
stop bitching about the taxes and go around them by jet canning


Any chance you can find a different thread to be stupid in? PI requires both exporting and importing goods. Try jet-canning goods to a planet, then come back here hanging your head in shame.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-11-29 21:20:07 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Endovior wrote:
Since I logged in shortly before the reboot, didn't have time to do much... but I did quickly notice the new and vastly increased taxes on import/export (in nullsec, from the Interbus Offices). I was given to understand that the prior tax rate was something like 5%, and Interbus would now be charging something like 17%.

Previously, doing an Import/Export to fuel one of my factory worlds cost 14k and 7k ISK. Just now, I noticed it cost 1.4 million ISK and 700k ISK... so essentially, instead of the tax rate merely tripling, as we were advised, it seems to have multiplied a hundredfold.

...That can't be working as intended.



You cry baby bitches moaning about high sec players in NPC and low taxes are now crying because of 17% tax on PI ????

CRY ME A RIVER little Jimmy


it's 170%

it's off.

The complaint is valid.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Linka Romanov
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2011-11-29 21:20:12 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Just checked on exporting 5K precious metals. Before, cost around 2K or so... now? 617,000 isk.

C'mon Nullabor... you really can't have intended for this degree of absolute stupidity to taint the whole PCO thing. What the hell are you people thinking. You really screwed the pooch on this one. You should be embarassed if this is intended.


It's almost as if they want income from Player Owned Customs offices to be a viable income stream! Not much incentive to use a low tax POCO when the Concord COs in highsec charge a pittance in taxes. If you don't like the tax rate, consider setting up your own POCO or reaching an agreement with someone who has? Alternately, it's likely that PI goods will eventually price in the tax increase and your bottom line will be relatively unaffected.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2011-11-29 21:23:08 UTC
So basically what everyone missed was not the tax % but the re-valuation of the PI products in general.

Now its just a waiting game to see how high the prices rise.

Glad I sat on the almost 2bil of coolant i made last month.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2011-11-29 21:23:52 UTC
Sebero Sinak wrote:
The tax rate in wormholes is 170% , i did the math. i am assuming nullsec is the same . That means it costs 1020 isk per m3 to export simple products like Consumer Electronics.

Yes pos fuels are going to go thru the atmosphere as relates to price.....they may even achieve escape velocity and leave orbit on thier way up.


This sounds like a misplaced decimal point to me. My PI will not move until this is sorted out I think.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken