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Vic Jefferson for CSM X - Chaos and Hilarity

Author
William Ruben
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-12-22 15:49:42 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
William Ruben wrote:
Answering for myself, because they are boring, require a stack of isk and SPs better spent elsewhere in null at the start, and require a whole lot more knowledge and experience than a real new player has.


A PI alt with 20 days of skilling can net you half a PLEX's worth in a month of purely passive ISK. The skillbooks will cost about 10 million. It's really a matter of poorly utilizing the space in which money making opportunities already exist.

I was under the impression it isn't just a matter of skills though, but of the initial investment in interaction equipment, access to POCOs, transport ships (which in NPC null, at least Syndicate, have huge targets painted on them), access to planets, etc. However I'm willing to concede the point since I've never really looked into it in great detail, nor talked to the folks in corp necessary to get involved in PI, and our discussion is becoming somewhat tangential to the campaign thread.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#22 - 2014-12-22 20:35:01 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

Not convinced by this argument. Hiseccers may need to go to WH or null for better industry and PVE drops. It doesn't mean we bring these into hisec, as a reverse argument. Not being able to leave your couch doesn't mean the fridge has to come over to where you're sitting.


I don't think its a problem when Hi Sec natives come down to lower security bands, that is a good thing. They should be motivated to step into the unknown in the name of profit, and they should be left felt wanting at what Hi Sec offers them. The question then becomes why are so many low and null sec dwellers are motivated to come up to higher security bands to do missions or incursions as their bread and butter. Part of the reason is that there simply isn't enough reward compared to the risk/effort ratios they could get in Hi Sec, thus another source of local conflict fails to sprout.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#23 - 2014-12-22 23:11:41 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

Not convinced by this argument. Hiseccers may need to go to WH or null for better industry and PVE drops. It doesn't mean we bring these into hisec, as a reverse argument. Not being able to leave your couch doesn't mean the fridge has to come over to where you're sitting.


I don't think its a problem when Hi Sec natives come down to lower security bands, that is a good thing. They should be motivated to step into the unknown in the name of profit, and they should be left felt wanting at what Hi Sec offers them. The question then becomes why are so many low and null sec dwellers are motivated to come up to higher security bands to do missions or incursions as their bread and butter. Part of the reason is that there simply isn't enough reward compared to the risk/effort ratios they could get in Hi Sec, thus another source of local conflict fails to sprout.



This is so true. C4 and C5 wormholes have been basically destroyed by the presence of highsec incursions. Why put a 15-20b capital escalation fleet at risk in a C5, or a pair of 3b Marauders at risk in a C4, when you can make 70-90% of the ISK per hour with much lesser logistical concerns in highsec?

The more of Vic's posts I read, the more I endorse what he stands for (even though we do not have 100% agreement), and I have no loyalty to his alliance.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-12-23 05:54:52 UTC

I honestly think part of the problem is that during "balancing" or "rebalancing", the idea that you can earn ISK in total safety is not factored in or weighted properly. Being immune to PVP as a default (until a ganker takes exception) eliminates a lot of dead time, and adds a lot of logistical value into the ISK per hour equation.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

bigbud berito
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#25 - 2015-01-10 02:37:31 UTC
I agree with Vic Jefferson on just about all his points, especially the ideas about keeping new content in low / npc nullsec.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#26 - 2015-01-12 05:21:23 UTC
So i had a chat with people today about some random things.

Warp core stabilizers should be disabled in faction warfare complexes. There should also be some sort of standings loss mechanic for repeated warping out. There's nothing wrong with warping out when a ten man gang lands on your plex, it would take a fool to try and fight that, but never fighting and/or always running should be penalized. The LP rightfully belongs in the hands of people that generate lossmails, rather than devalued by AFK farming. Risk/reward here is pretty broken, and its a shame as FW is one of the great ways into the game.

Syndicate is a unique place. Its geography makes it viable as one of the only NPC Null havens for newer, adventurous groups that do not want to deal with lowsec gate and station mechanics, as it is not entirely a logistical nightmare to live in. However, there is no real stable source of income to fuel those groups now, especially not compared to other NPC null places. The recent changes to the LP store are a step in the right direction. Edge implants are worthless, and replacing them with a +% Hull HP set would be very interesting for niche hull tanked fits and freighter pilots - these would both be in demand and interesting, as well as be thematically compatible with the Intaki Syndicate. Perhaps even an industrial that can haul combat boosters through High Sec and not be pulled over by the faction police. DED sites were perhaps the only accessible income, and those are rapidly becoming devalued by the changes to escalations in sov null. If Veterans and new players alike had any sustainable, bottom up income in Syndicate, it could hum with activity.

Standings are a terrible trap currently. Once a character has committed to a side in faction warfare or done one too many mission, grinding them back up is worse than having one's teeth pulled then gargling sulfur - an anachronism from games of decades' past. Tags to fix standings should be streamlined the same way security status tags were, and the belt rats (or other mechanic) that give the tags should be NPC null exclusive, giving them another unique export.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Jaysen Larrisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-01-12 06:38:01 UTC
Kudos to Vic Jefferson...this is one of the better candidate threads that i've read. I enjoy the measured and practical tone to your proposals and that you address both macro topics and "small things" like actual ship balance.

Few questions:
1) Any recommendations on how to make missile systems (particularly anything larger than LMs) more competitive in PVP?

2) Your thoughts on the recent balance activity with Recon Ships (i.e. does this actually help all the Recons?) and the major nerf of Fighter & Fighter-Bombers?

3) What are primary ways you'll want to engage the community if elected, particularly those outside your specific alliance? Do you think it's helpful or necessary to open your aperture up beyond your alliance for feedback?

4) What separates you from the other large bloc Nul candidates out there?

Good luck with the election.

"Endless money forms the sinews of War" - Cicero

Biomassed - Dust & EVE Podcast

Twitter - @JaysynLarrissen

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#28 - 2015-01-12 08:39:57 UTC
Jaysen Larrisen wrote:
Kudos to Vic Jefferson...this is one of the better candidate threads that i've read. I enjoy the measured and practical tone to your proposals and that you address both macro topics and "small things" like actual ship balance.

Few questions:
1) Any recommendations on how to make missile systems (particularly anything larger than LMs) more competitive in PVP?

2) Your thoughts on the recent balance activity with Recon Ships (i.e. does this actually help all the Recons?) and the major nerf of Fighter & Fighter-Bombers?

3) What are primary ways you'll want to engage the community if elected, particularly those outside your specific alliance? Do you think it's helpful or necessary to open your aperture up beyond your alliance for feedback?

4) What separates you from the other large bloc Nul candidates out there?

Good luck with the election.


1)Balancing the larger missile systems is going to be tricky right now. A good deal of the problem is that the larger missiles sort of depend on larger, slower things being out there. Another part of the problem is drones (or their platforms) are just too good now as well - application wise and damage wise getting something to compete with them is going to be hard. Basically Its hard to judge exactly what needs fixing about them given the environment they exist in currently - this would be a much easier call in a different meta.

2)Recons are hard to balance. You do not want them to be too tanky, but you also do not want to have them be so frail as to be useless in a larger fight. Getting those numbers just right is hard given how many things can modulate HP. T3s will still be king of real fleet fights. I do not think this changes them all that much, more capacitor is good though. I view the fighter changes as more a preventative move against a potential exploit than a change; off-grid links and off-grid assist are both things that sort of do not make sense to me.

3)I primarily view myself as non-partisan here with regards to alliance. Its a label and lots of people definitely do not look beyond it, echoing 'grr goons'. I am running as a player, nothing more. I will maintain an active presence on the relevant forms and am contactable in game.

4)I am primarily concerned with empowering new players, small groups, and content creation everywhere in New Eden. I do not speak for large alliances, or for their needs exclusively. I am not officially endorsed in any way. You are as likely to find me in NPC null or Low Sec as you are in Sov Null, if not more.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Jaysen Larrisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-01-12 16:11:15 UTC
Thanks for the responses, Vic.

Again, good luck in the election and I hope you do well.

"Endless money forms the sinews of War" - Cicero

Biomassed - Dust & EVE Podcast

Twitter - @JaysynLarrissen

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#30 - 2015-01-12 18:29:00 UTC
Your theme is "chaos and hilarity," but your main concern seems to be min/maxers who reduce everything to a handful of optimized numbers and then complain that they're not having any fun. That's their problem, not anyone else's.

Your great example, Barleguet, already happened. It happened before the latest round of buffs to lowsec, if memory serves. Chaos and hilarity are already available to anyone who wants them. The people who are running high-sec incursions instead of living in wormholes would rather run high-sec incursions than live in wormholes. They might not want to admit that to themselves, because it's ~so hardcore~ to live in a C6 (or sov null, for that matter), but there they are. When I lived in W-space, I actually lived there, because I wanted to. I took an income hit relative to running L4s in high sec, but that was worth the trade of not having to run L4s in high sec. I would rather throw RL money at PLEX than do that, especially if I'm by myself.

That said, I don't disagree with the idea that especially NPC null-sec needs some love. The main problem there is that simply buffing rewards won't do: null-sec anomalies are already the largest ISK faucet in the game, by a comfortable margin, so bumping up the bounties just makes the biggest single faucet even bigger. Not to mention that, because the bounties are fixed amounts, the rewards are divided by the number of participants, and so you have lots of solo anomaly runners and very little teamwork. (It didn't stop us from running anomalies in PVP fleets, but YMMV.)

So the question of how to restructure the rewards in nullsec is an interesting one. If you look at the current model:

1) it penalizes group play;

2) it's a giant ISK faucet;

3) nearly all the rewards are teleported magically into the player's wallet, so interaction with other players in the arenas of the market and logistics are limited to the occasional shiny drop;

4) it's the same old thing, over and over and over again;

5) unlike the L5 agents in Barleguet, they don't scale with population.

So, given those (and feel free to dispute them, I'm open to correction), how would you approach the problem of structuring rewards in null-sec?

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#31 - 2015-01-12 21:11:41 UTC
Sometimes it is the ratio of carrot to stick that makes all the difference. The classic prisoner's dilemma is such an iconic conundrum because people are so naturally inclined to hedge their bets. Generally I do not know much about WH space (that's where the scary people live!), but everything I hear about buffing lower class WHs such that they are more profitable seems like an excellent idea. More carrots where they belong.

Most of my theoretical changes to NPC null are ISK neutral or close to; missions remove ISK via LP and tags would add value, not ISK. Anomalies don't generate that much of the income in NPC null as they are quite limited and dangerous. I would much rather add desirable items to NPC null and keep it very differentiated from Sov Null. When I first started the game, scoring a vindicator BPC could keep you stocked on ships for a while; now not so much. I would be happier keeping the liquid ISK faucet in Sov Space, and just adding commodities to NPC null to give them something unique, without homogenizing them with Sov Null - every security band ideally has its own unique ways to contribute to the overall economy. Unique spawns or unique sites, basically anything in space that produces an item that someone wants.

Anomalies, though incredibly dry, do produce emergent content. The group play here is intel and defense fleets. That's not saying they are fine as is, or do not need adjustments, but I'm not sure what those would be. The ESS in its current incarnation has an issue with being guarded by rats, but I don't think this is the real issue with them. Rather the issue is that ratting is so sprawled across so many systems. Each system can only support a few ratters before it becomes overcrowded, thus you never really have a critical mass of people that want to actively defend it, and avoidance or not anchoring it becomes the dominant, boring strategy. Perhaps if they were constellation wide or had some more mechanics to actually get both interested parties on the same grid like FW does, or we had fewer systems that each in turn could support more ratters, they would be more useful. Ships are blowing up in and around anomalies, so at least they have that going for them over L4s.

I do hear most of your concerns about null anomalies. Your points one and four apply to equally to missioning as much as they do anomalies, so those are more an issue with most forms of PvE rather than anomaly specific. The ESS tries to make the rewards more commodity based, but doesn't quite do the job. Hundreds, probably thousands of man hours have probably been spent thinking about how to fix null-sec's bottom up income - I don't have an answer either. When you have people wtih alts in Hi Sec to make money for their low and null-sec fun having, you do realize there is a bit of a problem though.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Lord Parallax
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-01-15 12:39:39 UTC
Vic, let me ask you, if you became a CSM how soon will you be lobbying to have your alliance space turned into the "go to" area so you and your alliance mates can just sit on gates and generate content all day?

B/c after reading all of your "views" "concerns" and statements, it just appears to me that all you want is more people in your space to shoot at.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#33 - 2015-01-15 20:18:15 UTC
Lord Parallax wrote:
Vic, let me ask you, if you became a CSM how soon will you be lobbying to have your alliance space turned into the "go to" area so you and your alliance mates can just sit on gates and generate content all day?

B/c after reading all of your "views" "concerns" and statements, it just appears to me that all you want is more people in your space to shoot at.


So I have a couple points to touch on in responding to your post.

No matter what I say, some will not be convinced of my intentions simply due to my associations. There is literally nothing I can do to win these votes. Some though, will actually judge a candidate's merits or lack theroff, on her or his platform. I would ask that people consider my platform and not immediately jump to 'grr goons'. Does the candidates line of reasoning rhyme with your own, is this someone you could trust to empower your voice and concerns? For example there are several candidates focused on Hi Sec - are they just wanting to improve their private panda hunting reserve and ensure the rules are tilted in their favor, as one would guess from labels and associations, or do they actually want to make it a more interesting place? This is something that you, the voter, get to decide, and use your vote accordingly. Do I just stand for Sov Null Stuff?

I have spent perhaps the majority of my time in this game in NPC null and or Low. Conflicts here are more engaging and personal to me. I will continue to spend the majority of my time in these areas as I find them the most fun. No security band or playstyle should have the monopoly on content. To that end, I want to empower players that make the choice to revel in the chaos and danger that NPC Null/Low provide, compared to the relative safety of Sov Null.

I don't want to turn any sov area into a one-stop content shop. The more different entities you can get into one area, the more interesting interactions can happen, and you aren't going to get that many entities, especially hostile ones, in the same sov space, at least under the current rules. In short, I want to see Low and NPC null buffed specifically because you will get more people, more unique groups, in areas where they can actually colonize and interact, rather than populating the relative sterility of the partitioned Sov blocks.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Lord Parallax
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2015-01-16 07:55:55 UTC
I do agree with you to a point. High sec has been stagnate and bloated. There isnt much to offer new lplayers in the ways of successful caimpaigning in low or null unless they are in big fleets that can mask them. But everyone has their own playstyle. Rather than take away from one to give to another why not just give the more riskier more reward. Let the carebears be carebears if low or null was more enticing to move there more would do so and the players that stay in high sec become greater targets than before making their risk/isk factor go up.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#35 - 2015-01-16 19:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vic Jefferson
Lord Parallax wrote:
There isnt much to offer new lplayers in the ways of successful caimpaigning in low or null unless they are in big fleets that can mask them.


I disagree. Compare and contrast these two scenarios, though I'll admit they may be idyllically painted due to fond memories of days in Barleguet.

A)Steve Stegosaurus decides to play EvE online, after hearing so much about it. One of the first things he realizes is that he needs ISK to do anything, but being so new, he can't afford to really risk much, and begins grinding missions and isk, maybe even mining. The game of intriguing stories and heated battles seems so foreign, but he grinds in good faith that one day, you know, that one day in the future when he has enough ISK and LP, he will venture into dangerous areas. Chances are, that day will never come, or he will be ganked or wardecced into extinction, and never really have a good opportunity to learn the game, or enjoy it, unless he really just likes missions. This is currently what the income and risk structure of the game encourages.

B)Abbie Anaconda decides to start playing the game with a few friends, or maybe she was fortunate enough to be recruited by an adventurous veteran who wants to see how far he can get managing a new corp. Life seems rough out in low or NPC null compared to Steve. There aren't many ways to get ISK, and predatory players make surviving a challenge. Through patience, planning, and persistence, she learns how to stay safe while hunting Clone soldiers in groups of frigates. In fact, she has far more fun with a group of friends hunting for clone soldiers than Steve had grinding level 1 and 2 missions alone. Predatory players have taken notice of these gangs and begin bullying them. Eventually Abbie's gang assert their dominance and score a few nice kills using only cheap, combined arms frigates against bigger, TII ships; Steve is entirely empty handed when it comes to adventure and stories like this. Characters and happenings like this ARE what EvE is; I'm sure we all remember 'that one guy' that was the local bully, and treasured the times we came out on top.

...maybe that was a little hokey, but the idea is sound. More stuff in space that can generate content would be warmly welcomed, in both Low and NPC null. New players can contribute a lot, and its the best time to learn teamwork.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#36 - 2015-01-16 22:38:53 UTC
AWOXing

Obviously, people have concerns over this.

A)The tool box of the Hi Sec antagonist is shrinking. It's already too small. There aren't many interesting choices besides suicide ganking. This is a bad thing.

B)Given the state of Hi Sec and risk/reward ratios, it is also a step in the entirely wrong direction. If low and null were rebalanced so they actually draw numbers, this wouldn't be as big of a deal. It's another step towards optimizing the High Sec trap of complete safety and guaranteed income. If there were more people living in areas without CONCORD, no one would even take a second look about these changes.

However,

C)To the best of my knowledge, the biggest AWOXes have not happened in Hi Sec. It is completely unfair and disingenuous to saw Awoxing has been removed. Hi Sec antagonists/pirate aspirants who pompously pontificate about risk/reward and yet depend on having such a risk free way of ensuring kills should make you think about its usage. I understand that the rest of the game is a target poor environment, which is why I maintain that fixing other security bands is a real root treatment of several ills plaguing the game - if you want to build a better pirate, you must first build them a better New Eden.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Luke Icecon
Life. Universe. Everything.
#37 - 2015-01-21 01:28:59 UTC
This is an earnest and thoughtful man and the CSM would be well served by having him on board. Has my top vote.

Tres Pein
Cathedral.
Shadow Cartel
#38 - 2015-01-22 17:21:38 UTC
Vic came into my home system yesterday just to campaign his ideas even though we dont get along in game all to frequently :) But his ideas I believe are spot on, and taking the time to respond to everyone who has questions just shows dedication that is needed in a CSM member. I am Tres Pein and I support this message.
Nate rayward
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#39 - 2015-01-22 18:10:39 UTC
GRRR GOONS GRRR GOONS You are adopted and nobody loves you......... sorry had to say something negative before i can give him a positive Lol as much as it pains me to say this ill vote for you..... i think generating content for systems other then high sec will bring lots of fun into the game. I also agree that the systems we base out of for the risk don't generate as much isk as they should. We have brawls with these boys all the time and i don't think he is pushing for things that only benefit his alliance. More content is a win in my book!
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#40 - 2015-01-22 19:20:30 UTC
Just for Crits Interview:
http://justforcrits.com/csmx-vic-jefferson/

Cap Stable Interview:
http://capstable.net/2015/01/14/vic-jefferson/

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

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